The Newsroom

BBC News Channel General Discussion

(November 2013)

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MA
Markymark
deejay posted:
Yes but again, that's not going to save any money. The issue of regions not being HD is a more important one. Why the BBC won't add an upscaler to each region's feed at the coding centre I don't know. Even if it's just to the DTT networks that'd be a start.


It's not just an upscaller, it's also upgraded contribution and backhaul circuits, and having to generate whole new PSB 3 mux feeds for each region.
It's probably a couple of bay's worth of kit and 'glue' but I do agree, it's starting to look
a tad shabby for one of the world's premier state broadcasters, and their primary TV channel
DE
deejay
No I know there's more to it, but rather than engineer 15 new HD streams in addition to the SD ones, plus upgrading all the kit in each region, I don't really get why the BBC doesn't re-engineer the existing opt chains to upscale the opt inserts into the local DTT chains... Then as regions get newer HD kit, the HD can be passed on to the transmitter and down scaled for SD.

Nothing's ever easy I know, especially in the BBC, but I'm sure there must be a way to achieve HD regions. Maybe there's no will...
VM
VMPhil
Aren't the BBC "platform agnostic", as it would be relatively easy enough to do what you're suggesting for DTT, but they'd still have to find the space for the regional HD streams on satellite and cable. Although I believe the BBC doesn't pay retransmission costs anymore at least on Sky?
IS
Inspector Sands
VMPhil posted:
Although I believe the BBC doesn't pay retransmission costs anymore at least on Sky?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'retransmission' but it certainly pays for the satellite space to transmit on satellite
MA
Markymark
deejay posted:
No I know there's more to it, but rather than engineer 15 new HD streams in addition to the SD ones, plus upgrading all the kit in each region, I don't really get why the BBC doesn't re-engineer the existing opt chains to upscale the opt inserts into the local DTT chains... Then as regions get newer HD kit, the HD can be passed on to the transmitter and down scaled for SD.

Nothing's ever easy I know, especially in the BBC, but I'm sure there must be a way to achieve HD regions. Maybe there's no will...


What they could do, that would the dispense with the need to provide an HD network feed into each region, and an HD feed back out to the CCM, is to adopt the ITV method of opting. Each region is simply a remote source into the CCM centre, and are switched in and out by a router salvo (controlled by Red Bee) . Problem is the Beeb seem very reluctant to apply that template, possibly because it effectively means ATOS are engaged in a dynamic 'pres' function ?
IS
Inspector Sands
deejay posted:
No I know there's more to it, but rather than engineer 15 new HD streams in addition to the SD ones, plus upgrading all the kit in each region, I don't really get why the BBC doesn't re-engineer the existing opt chains to upscale the opt inserts into the local DTT chains...


Because the HD and SD networks are totally seperate and there aren't BBC local HD DTT chains.
'Re-engineering' the current distribution so it's HD would mean there'd be no SD opt-outs

Upconverting the regions into a new set of 15 HD chains would work but it does essentially mean creating a copy of what there is now.
VM
VMPhil
Inspector Sands posted:
VMPhil posted:
Although I believe the BBC doesn't pay retransmission costs anymore at least on Sky?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'retransmission' but it certainly pays for the satellite space to transmit on satellite

This is what I was thinking of: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ariel/26387384
MA
Markymark
VMPhil posted:
Inspector Sands posted:
VMPhil posted:
Although I believe the BBC doesn't pay retransmission costs anymore at least on Sky?

I'm not sure what you mean by 'retransmission' but it certainly pays for the satellite space to transmit on satellite

This is what I was thinking of: http://www.bbc.co.uk/ariel/26387384


Yes, very poor choice of wording, because Sky never did, and don't 'retransmit' any of the BBC's services
SN
The SNT Three
DTV posted:
Of course a UK Today style opt might be nice as something to fill the void on BBC One HD during the regional opts, the promo loop is just pointless as is the countdown. I feel like either a UK Today style programme or an alternative bulletin every time (like Inside Out) would be ideal for those slots.


deejay posted:
Yes but again, that's not going to save any money [..]


I am honestly not sure that the cost of repackaging a few things is that high - plus it would certainly come across better than a loop of nothing! Surely they lose a number of viewers to the SD stream every time the regional news comes on, who then stay SD all night. We certainly don't see pointers on the SD stream to change back to HD...
EX
excel99
deejay posted:
After all the new proposals are fully in place, the news channel (if I've understood everything right) won't be showing anything independently from 1am until the early afternoon (overnights shared with World, breakfast shared with BBC One, business shared with World, Victoria Derbyshire shared with BBC Two, the One shared with BBC One). Now that's money saving.

Not sure if anything has been announced for 9am-9.15am, but ignoring that, the NC will start at 11am on weekdays it would seem (simulcast on BBC2 for the first half hour)

Part of me wouldn't be surprised if The Daily Politics ends up being simulcast on the NC if any further cuts needed to be made
BR
Brekkie
DTV posted:
Of course a UK Today style opt might be nice as something to fill the void on BBC One HD during the regional opts, the promo loop is just pointless as is the countdown. I feel like either a UK Today style programme or an alternative bulletin every time (like Inside Out) would be ideal for those slots.

I don't get why they don't just simulcast the news channel, certainly for the 6.30pm bulletin. Indeed I believe that is the plan with BBC1+1, which seems even more stupid as presumably the news will be an hour out of date.
NG
noggin Founding member
deejay posted:
No I know there's more to it, but rather than engineer 15 new HD streams in addition to the SD ones, plus upgrading all the kit in each region, I don't really get why the BBC doesn't re-engineer the existing opt chains to upscale the opt inserts into the local DTT chains... Then as regions get newer HD kit, the HD can be passed on to the transmitter and down scaled for SD.

Nothing's ever easy I know, especially in the BBC, but I'm sure there must be a way to achieve HD regions. Maybe there's no will...


The current BBC One regional solution is to feed every English region an MPEG2 9Mbs (I think) BBC One SD network feed, which is then permanently fed via an opt-switch (or two in some sub-opt cases) and then backhauled to two coding and mux centres in 270Mbs SD for statmuxed coding and mux (for both DSat and DTT)

To do this in HD would either need an opt-switch in the coding and mux centres (controlled remotely and switching in and out of the HD network feed), a dualed HD network path via the regional centres, a replacement HD opt-chain path (with SD just a downconversion), or a move to an ITV-style studio-feed to playout centre-type solution.

Then you have to cope with the statmuxed HD coding and mux. Some of this will be present as ITV and C4 already have some regionality on Freeview HD, but for every unique regional combination you need 4 encoders (BBC One, BBC Two, ITV and C4) as they are statmuxed together. And you need twice this number for dual site operation.

This is non-trivial and not cheap. There is no justification for it for upscaling SD, though there is when the regional content is HD.

An alternative solution would be the ability for receivers to be remotely triggered to change channel to BBC One SD at an opt-out point. That would be the clever solution (but would be horrible for 12" opts)

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