Pointless: didn't actually need you to explain the perfectly obvious.
OK. Enough of that.
What now bugs me is, did the UK jury really think Georgia was the 7th best song to award it 4 points? I thought Georgia's song was terrible, i.e. a load of nauseating garbage with unnecessary use of strobe lighting. It and Moldova both deserved last place with nul points in the final, IMHO. Better still, neither country should have qualified; other countries were more deserving of the places they took.
I guess the question is whether the television production techniques used are an issue for the jury - or whether they judged based on the song lyrics, musical composition and performance (rather than coverage). The lighting techniques, coverage decisions etc. are presumably less of an issue, as they are decided in part by the host broadcaster not just the country performing.
I doubt the strobe lighting will have influenced the jury.
As for the comments about Moldova and Georgia qualifying - that's the joy of Eurovision. Realising that everyone in Europe is not the same as us, and that different countries really do like different styles and appreciate things that we don't. Eurovision would be incredibly dull if it was just a parade of 43 identikit songs - all of which could be in the UK charts.
Sixteen Years Of Different Winners
Following Azerbaijan's first ever win this year, I've analysed the participating countries for the entire history of the Eurovision Song Contest. Firstly, it's interesting to see that since 1996, a different country has won each year.
1996 Ireland (7th)
1997 United Kingdom (5th)
1998 Israel (3rd)
1999 Sweden (4th)
2000 Denmark (2nd)
2001 Estonia (1st)
2002 Latvia (1st)
2003 Turkey (1st)
2004 Ukraine (1st)
2005 Greece (1st)
2006 Finland (1st)
2007 Serbia (1st)
2008 Russia (1st)
2009 Norway (3rd)
2010 Germany (2nd)
2011 Azerbaijan (1st)
Figures in brackets indicate the cumulative win for that country, e.g. in 1996 Ireland won for the 7th time.
That means that from 1996 to 2011 inclusive, there has been a 16 year run of different winners, the longest in Eurovision Song Contest history. Note also there was an eight year run of first-time winners from 2001 to 2008 inclusive.
How much longer will this trend of a different winner each year continue? As you will see in the next few posts that could well happen. Can the eight year run of first-time winners be beaten? It can, although it will take until 2019 to happen. Further interesting trivia follows in the next few notes.
Here are all the 26 countries that have won the Eurovision Song Contest at least once. Notice the number of years from first ever entry to first win varies considerably. Finland currently holds the record for longest wait for a first win: 45 years, i.e. they first won in 2006, 45 years after their first ever song in 1961. Serbia currently holds the record for shortest wait for a first win (see footnote for more though). This year's winner Azerbaijan had a short wait: 3 years after their debut entry in 2008.
Country, years after first entry (first entry - first win)
Finland 45 years (1961 - 2006)
Greece 31 years (1974 - 2005)
Belgium 30 years (1956 - 1986)
Yugoslavia 28 years (1961 - 1989)
Turkey 28 years (1975 - 2003)
Germany 26 years (1956 - 1982)
Norway 25 years (1960 - 1985)
Sweden 16 years (1958 - 1974)
Russia 14 years (1994 - 2008)
Monaco 12 years (1959 - 1971)
United Kingdom 10 years (1957 - 1967)
Austria 9 years (1957 - 1966)
Italy 8 years (1956 - 1964)
Spain 7 years (1961 - 1968)
Estonia 7 years (1994 - 2001)
Denmark 6 years (1957 - 1963)
Luxembourg 5 years (1956 - 1961)
Ireland 5 years (1965 - 1970)
Israel 5 years (1973 - 1978)
Azerbaijan 3 years (2008 - 2011)
France 2 years (1956 - 1958)
Latvia 2 years (2000 - 2002)
Netherlands 1 year (1956 - 1957)
Ukraine 1 year (2003 - 2004)
Switzerland* 0 years (1956 - 1956)
Serbia 0 years (2007 - 2007)
* The debut Eurovision Song Contest was the only year each country was able to enter two songs. Switzerland's second song of the night "Refrain" won the 1956 Contest, therefore their first ever song did not win. Consequently, from 1956 to 2006, no country won with its first ever song.
Serbia thus became the first country to win with its first ever song (as an independent nation), which is why they had a shorter wait for their first win than Switzerland. It could be argued that Serbia previously participated as part of Serbia and Montenegro (2004), and part of Yugoslavia (1974, 1982, 1991, 1992). However on those occasions, the songs represented the whole of Serbia and Montenegro / Yugoslavia, not just Serbia itself. 2007 was the first year that Serbia's song just represented Serbia.
If Liechtenstein were to enter, and win with its first ever song, it could be said to have an even shorter wait for a first win having not previously entered as part of a larger country which no longer exists.
It's worth bearing in mind that the above list ignores the fact that some countries missed a few years in their history. For example, Finland first won in 2006, 45 years after its first entry in 1961. However it missed the Contests of 1970, 1995, 1997, 1999, 2001 and 2003.
Now for the countries which have yet to achieve their first win:
N.B. Each country's debut year is shown after its name. Estonia, Hungary, Romania and Slovakia entered the 1993 qualifying round
Kvalifikacija za Millstreet
in Ljubljana, Slovenia, on 3 April 1993, but didn't qualify for the 1993 Eurovision Song Contest, and thus their debut year is recognised as 1994. FYR Macedonia entered the audio qualifier for the 1996 Eurovision Song Contest, but failed to qualify, and thus their debut year is recognised as 1998. However since the advent of semi-finals in 2004, the debut year is the year they first appeared in the semi-final, whether or not they qualified to the final.
Long Time Runners (10 years or more)
Portugal (1964)
Malta (1971)
Morocco (1980) (only competed once so far)
Cyprus (1981)
Iceland (1986)
Slovenia (1993)
Bosnia-Herzegovina (1993)
Croatia (1993)
Romania (1994)
Slovakia (1994)
Lithuania (1994)
Hungary (1994)
Poland (1994)
FYR Macedonia (1998)
That's 14 countries altogether. One significant subset is seven who debuted in 1994; Estonia won in 2001 and Russia won in 2008, therefore 5 of the 7 who debuted in 1994 have yet to achieve a first win. Another interesting group are the three ex-Yugoslav countries which debuted in 1993; 18 years on and none of those three have won yet. If one of each of the above countries wins every year, it will take 14 years for them all to win once (if Morocco ever makes a comeback).
If Portugal wins next year, it will have taken 48 years to achieve its first win, which will snatch the record for longest wait for a first win from Finland (45 years). My advice to Portugal, try singing in English; it might then stand a chance.
Will Morocco ever return to the Eurovision Song Contest? If they enter, reach the final and win next year, they will have the second longest wait for a first win: 32 years (1980 - 2012). However they will also have the longest gap between entries: 32 years. Bizarrely though, they will have won on only their second attempt (just like Ukraine in 2004)!
Recent Newcomers (since 2004)
Since the introduction of semi-finals in 2004, 13 new countries have entered Eurovision Song Contest from 2004 onwards. The most recent were Azerbaijan and San Marino in 2008. Of the 13 which debuted since 2004, Serbia won in 2007 (the first time it entered as Serbia), and this year's winner was Azerbaijan (3 years after first entering in 2008). The other 11 countries from this group are still waiting for their first win:
Belarus (2004)
Andorra (2004) (never qualified to final)
Albania (2004)
Serbia-Montenegro (2004) (no longer exists as a nation)
Moldova (2005)
Bulgaria (2005)
Armenia (2006)
Georgia (2007)
Montenegro (2007) (never qualified to final)
Czech Republic (2007) (never qualified to final)
San Marino (2008) (never qualified to final)
How long will it be before any of the countries in this group have their first win? Now that Serbia-Montenegro no longer exists as a joint country, that leaves 10 countries in this group, and thus it will take at least 10 years for them to win once each.
Taking the two groups together, that's
24 countries still waiting for their first ever win.
So you see, it's quite possible for the eight year run of first-time winners (2001 to 2008) to be beaten (2011 to 2019 and beyond). Furthermore, first time wins for each of these countries during forthcoming years will continue the trend of a different winner each year since 1996.
As I've already explained, we've seen a 16 year run of different winners each year 1996 to 2011 inclusive. The preceding few years saw winners all within that run: Norway (1995), Ireland (1994, 1993, 1992), Sweden (1991). Therefore, to determine the old-timers that haven't won in ages, you need to go back to 1990 (the year that Italy last won) and work backwards. Altogether, I've found 10 countries that last won in 1990 or earlier still waiting to win again. Note that one of them no longer exists, so that leaves 9 countries.
Austria (1966)
Spain (1969)
Monaco (1971)
Netherlands (1975)
France (1977)
Luxembourg (1983)
Belgium (1986)
Switzerland (1988)
Yugoslavia (1989) (no longer exists as a nation)
Italy (1990)
Italy returned this year for the first time since 1997, and surprisingly finished second in the grand final. If it comes back and wins next year, it will have had 22 years gap between wins.
According to Wikipedia, Austria will be in the Eurovision Song Contest 2012. If it reaches the final and wins, it will have had 46 years gap between wins, the longest in the history of the ESC (currently Denmark holds the record for longest gap between wins, 37 years 1963 to 2000).
Luxembourg last entered in 1993. Will they ever return?
Monaco was absent from Eurovision from 1980 to 2003 inclusive. 2004 to 2006 inclusive it failed to qualify from the semi-finals. Since 2007 it has been absent again. Will it return in 2012, and if so will it qualify to the final for the first time since the introduction of semi-finals in 2004?
If any one of these wins next year, it will extend the current run of a different country winning each year by one year, i.e. 1996 to 2012 inclusive. With 9 countries which haven't won for over 20 years (1990 or earlier), plus 24 countries still waiting for their first ever win, the current trend of a different winner each year is likely to continue for several years to come.
Last year Germany became the 13th country to win the Eurovision Song Contest more than once. That meant a 28 year gap between Nicole's win in 1982 and Lena's win in 2010. As you can see from the list below, Germany's 28 year gap between wins is the third longest in ESC history. Denmark currently holds the record for longest gap between wins (37 years), but for how much longer?
Denmark 37 years (1963 - 2000)
Switzerland 32 years (1956 - 1988)
Germany 28 years (1982 - 2010)
Italy 26 years (1964 - 1990)
Israel 19 years (1979 - 1998)
United Kingdom 16 years (1981 - 1997)
Norway 14 years (1995 - 2009)
Netherlands 10 years (1959 - 1969)
Ireland 10 years (1970 - 1980)
Luxembourg 10 years (1973 - 1983)
Sweden 10 years (1974 - 1984)
Norway 10 years (1985 - 1995)
France 8 years (1969 - 1977)
Sweden 8 years (1991 - 1999)
France 7 years (1962 - 1969)
Luxembourg 7 years (1965 - 1972)
United Kingdom 7 years (1969 - 1976)
Ireland 7 years (1980 - 1987)
Sweden 7 years (1984 - 1991)
Netherlands 6 years (1969 - 1975)
United Kingdom 5 years (1976 - 1981)
Ireland 5 years (1987 - 1992)
Luxembourg 4 years (1961 - 1965)
Netherlands 2 years (1957 - 1959)
France 2 years (1958 - 1960)
France 2 years (1960 - 1962)
United Kingdom 2 years (1967 - 1969)
Ireland 2 years (1994 - 1996)
Spain 1 year (1968 - 1969)
Luxembourg 1 year (1972 - 1973)
Israel 1 year (1978 - 1979)
Ireland 1 year (1992 - 1993)
Ireland 1 year (1993 - 1994)
If any of the following three countries win next year, they will take the record for longest gap between wins:
Austria 46 years (1966 - 2012)
Spain 43 years (1969 - 2012)
Monaco 41 years (1971 - 2012) (that is, if Monaco returns next year)
If Netherlands wins next year, it will equal Denmark's gap between wins: 37 years (1975 - 2012).
If France wins next year, it will have the second longest gap between wins: 35 years (1977 - 2012).
Again, this list ignores the fact that some countries missed one or more years between wins. Denmark currently holds the record for longest gap between wins (37 years). Between its wins in 1963 and 2000, it had a long absence 1967 to 1977 inclusive, and missed a few more years (1994, 1996, 1998) in the relegation era.
Why? A couple of weeks on here I posted my objections to Georgia and Moldova having qualified to the final, and then got such high scores and places in the final (when I wanted them both to come last with nul points), other people disliked my post. I put an in-depth review of the final here, people didn't like that.
Now I've posted a some
statistics
about the Eurovision Song Contest, i.e. all the countries that have have won one or more times, countries still waiting to win, countries that haven't won in over 20 years, gaps between wins, etc. Aren't you grateful that I've bothered to do the analysis? If I hadn't done it, would anyone else have?
Just like my review of the ESC final, you can skip it (scroll past it) if you're not interested. Reading it is not compulsory. However for the keen ESC fans out there who are interested in how many times each country has won, countries still waiting to win, etc, the information is here for them to read.
:-(
A former member
I have to admit - this is one thing that he's posted that was actually semi-interesting.
Because you're clogging up the thread with information, people aren't necessarily interested in, there's a limit.
I'm not sure there is any realistic limit, you know. This is only page 61 of this thread, some threads are up to triple figures. I also had no trouble scrolling past Tumble Tower's post as there was no clogs when I opened the thread. You probably need to get your internet pipes cleaned. Anyway, at least Tumble Tower was on-topic which is more than can be said for us.