A suggestion

Hello,

I've been lurking the mocks gallery for a while after my initial stint in posting mocks 3 years back. I have not opened this thread to post another mock but to give some suggestions on how to improve the mock gallery in the long term.

Now, what's clear to me is that TV forum's mock gallery has a very high quality threshold. Anything that is less than perfect is generally frowned upon. Personally, I think that the feedback that the bad/beginner mock makers receive is not as much overly harsh as it is simply unhelpful. The norm is not to post constructive criticism (is that frowned upon as well, or is it just not considered effective enough?) but rather to post pedantic, sarcastic or smart-arse remarks. Personally, I do not think that this is the most effective way to get someone to improve their mocks. More often than not, they will either continue to upload low-quality mocks or lose faith in TV forum and leave.

Now, I understand that there is a guide to mocking. I have read it a few times and it consists mainly of learning how to use software properly, a guide to safe areas and whether the mock has any room for improvement. However, I think there's more to making a good mock than this. Someone may have been slaving away for weeks making a mock, using a program they're familiar with, constantly reworking the mock, making sure everything's in the appropriate safe area, and the result could still be subpar.

These people are probably expecting- or at least hoping for- constructive criticism, so these pedantic, sarcastic comments or vague posts like "No. Just no." will mostly result in annoyance and infuriation, especially if the faults with the mock are not immediately apparent. Sometimes it's made very clear that they want constructive criticism, and ask what should be improved, and no constructive feedback is received. The smart-arse remarks prevail. This is more-or-less the equivalent of requesting a critique on DeviantArt and someone responding with "I see the problem here- you're rubbish!"

It would appear to me that the mocks gallery is for completed mocks.

This would be fine if there were alternatives. However, what we have to bear in mind is that TV Forum's mock gallery is the only dedicated TV mocks forum that's still in existence and actually gets used.

So the bad mocks are always going to appear on the forum, whether they're wanted or not.

Not only this, but it means that a lot of the beginner mock makers don't really have anywhere to go for help regarding improving their work.

An idea of mine is that we have a sub-board for work-in-progress mocks. Name it something like the "Beginner section", "Work-in-progress section" or "Critique section". This isn't necessarily to sieve out the bad mocks so that they can be ignored, but so that there's somewhere that the bad, or beginner mock-makers can go to get feedback that will actually have a positive effect on the quality of their work. Once they receive enough feedback they can start improving the mock, and upload the improved mock to the WIP sub-board to see if there's any more room for improvement. Then the mock maker can keep reworking the mock until the feedback is positive enough, and the mock maker feels confident enough to display the finished piece on the mock gallery.

You may notice that this is similar to what has been posted in the guide to mocking. My main concern is that what the mock maker may see as perfect, may not be what everyone else sees as perfect. The mock maker may also not know how he or she should go about improving his or her work. If they can get advice on a dedicated forum, then it will point them in the right direction.

I think it would be a good idea if the layout of the sub-board would be similar to that of the main mocks gallery. If it's just a single thread, then some mocks are likely to be overlooked.

Personally, I think that this idea is a win-win situation. It means that the visitors of the mocks gallery don't have to wade through the less-than-perfect mocks if they don't want to, and the bad or beginner mock makers can get advice on how to improve their work, so that they too can be worthy of the main gallery. So long as the sub-board is publicised enough, and made clear that this is where WIPs and beginner-mocks are welcomed, then I don't see any confusion happening. If someone posts a WIP on the main gallery, then a friendly reminder that there's a WIP sub-board wouldn't go amiss.

Whilst I'm no expert on the creation of forums, I feel that this sort of idea would benefit the mocks gallery considerably, allowing the good mocks to dominate the mocks gallery whilst giving advice on beginner mock makers.

I don't expect this to be taken into consideration, and I will probably get ridiculed for posting this. It may seem like a nonsense idea to a lot of you, but it's a thought. possibly a ridiculous thought, but a well-meant thought with the intention of making the mocks gallery better for everyone. I apologise if I come across as rude or overly blunt, but I am just trying to get a point across.

Regards,

Rexeljet.

I agree that the mocks forum can be seen as being overly negative towards mockers, but I strongly believe the blame lies with the mockers and not the people replying.

Why? Because, almost invariably, the people getting poor scores and bitchy comments which don't help improve the work are the same people who just post a thread title and a load of images, normally with a comment along the lines of "don't bother replying if it isn't constructive".

IMHO the most important aspect of a mock is the description.

I have seen mocks done to very poor technical standard, but that have been voted highly because the poster is articulate about their ideas, and it's clear from the description that the idea is good and it's only their implementation skill that has let it down - this is still a good mock. What isn't though is a rough idea, presented badly in Sketchup / Paint.net / whatever, by someone who doesn't know how to use the software, and doesn't really have any idea of what they were doing other than "a new logo for <random channel>".

Personally, I liked the idea of the gallery challenges (unfortunately challenge 3 kind of stumped everyone), because it's a good opportunity for the forum to promote good mocking skills (descriptive and graphical), as well as demonstrating to newer mockers what things they could do to get better responses.

I was always of the mind that the Gallery was for completed mocks, or those close to completion, but maybe it would benefit all of those who are creatively inclined if this was to change.

Perhaps if ALL new mocks were immediately marked as WIP upon posting for, lets say 30 days?, and then the ratings system automatically opened at the end of this honeymoon period. It would give time for users to comment and help improve the mock and then based on the progress after the month was up they could then rate the hopefully impoved mock. There could probably be the option for the user to end the WIP honeymoon period early if they have finished the mock and dont intend to improve upon it.

I realise that this would probably require a lot of effort to change, and i have absolutely no idea of how to implement it. Hopefully Asa or Bail will agree with some of the proposals in this thread and we will see change.

PS. I also think there should be the ability to give ZERO Stars as a vote. ...and Gallery Challenge 3 would have been impossible for seasoned professional designers never mind amateur TV Forumers.

I like this idea. I imagine it might be easier or less time-consuming to do this than my idea of a separate board, but since I don't have much experience of forum creation I'm not sure which one would work better.

Can you make Southern after 1982, Westward after 1982, Channel 4 before 1982 and Carlton before 1993?

This isn't a mocks request forum so could you please stop requesting mocks that you'd like to see - if you're that interested make them yourself.

Personally, (and this is coming from an American who doesn't posts mocks) I like this idea as well. For potential mock-creators seeing some of the criticism of other pieces could potentially deter them from the site entirely. What, in my opinion, can be implemented is a disclaimer of sorts--something to the effect of "If a mock is near completion or in the planning stages, please add a note at the top of the post" so those that will give their opinions on the piece can take that into consideration as they write their replies.