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Channel 3 North East and Carlton Central/Westcountry

Why dual branding for one and not the other? (March 2014)

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:-(
A former member
Good point as any: REVIEW OF HEARTS and STARS idents, any errors please say, once everything is sorted I will rewrite but thanks to Mr kite, Andrews and others over the year to try and sort this out.

Any ERRORS please say. Did UNM use the daytime version of the heart?

Quote:


* GMG North (Granada, Yorkshire, Tyne Tees) - used both NPU promos and the heart break bumper from launch day. However, promos for regional programmes remained
locally branded and often of a totally different design, which varied periodically and often between regions too. They all also took the idents when they
finally arrived. Some GMG North hearts idents had a piano variant of the tune, which where rare or non-existent in the rest of the country at the time.
There was also
# The standard form up 'lines' version
# Plus a 'hold' version unique to GMG North where the ident was already formed and the music started from about 20- 30 seconds into the tune.
#There was also a light brown/yellow standard form up 'lines' version used for day time use.
# Once the rebrand to ITV1 the live shots were killed off.

* Border - adopted the heart break bumper and NPU promos. Introduced the hearts idents when they arrived but seemed to use the lines one most or all of the time. In contrast to GMG North, they often used a menu with the evening's schedule on a hearts background, before leading into the immediate programme with an ident. Once GMG North took over continuity, they fell in line with GMG North's other regions.

* LWT - As with GMG North, until the replaced the hearts with video wall idents.

* Anglia and Meridian - Used the NPU promos but stuck local logos on the top left of the end board. Basically, as the promo ran, there would be an ITV logo in the top left of the screen.
However, on the final end board with the still of the programme and the information of when it was one, the ITV logo would be on another part of the screen and the Meridian or Anglia logo
was be where the ITV logo was in the top left. These stations initially ignored the heart break bumper and continued to use their own. However, when the hearts idents arrived, they introduced
regionalised versions of the hearts break bumpers which also included their own names and station logos. Anglia and Meridian tended to use the lines version a lot more than GMG North.
When they did use the film scene variants, it was always with the string music, not piano. One GMG took them over, the piano variant was introduced, at least for a short while.
However, both were mainly using the lines ident, or an ident already formed up with no music, something GMG North never did.

Once GMG took over, in summer 2000, the practise of slapping a regional logo over NPU trailers ceased, although regional promos were still regionally branded and distinct design-wise, in line with GMG North.

Meridian & Anglia did continue to use the live action idents after the ITV1 rename, its unclear whether this practices continued till the Celeb idents.

* HTV being owned by UNM and run from Meridian, it's story will be broadly similar to Meridian and Anglia, until Carlton took over, which further adds to the mystery, as this would've been a strange set up.

* Carlton regions (London, Central, Westcountry) - I've been quoted as saying these regions didn't use any hearts stuff until the star idents arrived, however, this is incorrect. When NPU promos arrived, these regions took them (or at least Carlton and Central did, not sure about Westcountry). The NPU design was also used for regional programmes and these were only ITV branded, as had been Carlton's policy since early 1998. The heart break bumper wasn't used initially but appeared in all three regions when the star idents arrived.
JO
John
In my view the Carlton 'Star' idents where some of the best presentation ever made. The ITV hearts motifs that made up the format where from, a different design agency - which allowed Lambie-Nairm to use them?
anyone have links to the original test idents again?
RD
rdd Founding member
English and Pockett, as I recall.

ISTR one of the reasons that HTV got the star idents was to allow joint continuity with the Carlton branded regions but whether that was ever done I don't know.
ET
ETP1 Forever
John posted:
In my view the Carlton 'Star' idents where some of the best presentation ever made. The ITV hearts motifs that made up the format where from, a different design agency - which allowed Lambie-Nairm to use them?
anyone have links to the original test idents again?

Heres a few (plenty more available from the user)



Obviously ended up being plighted by various disagreements from both the companies taking on this look and the designers, and eventually got boiled down to the set of ident's we know today.

Also, whilst there isn't any real examples available on the internet (used to be, then the user closed their account), this is another concept shortly afterwards that didn't make it for similar reasons, and nearly led to the entire network abandoning the idea.
:-(
A former member
Why did that nealry lead to the whole concept being dropped?
ET
ETP1 Forever
Why did that nealry lead to the whole concept being dropped?

I think that matter may have already been covered earlier in the thread, but as TV Live put it:

Quote:
By October 1998 the England and Wales ITV franchises were owned by 4 companies: Carlton Communications (London Weekday, Central, Westcountry), United News & Media (Anglia, Meridian, HTV), Granada Media Group (Granada, LWT, Tyne Tees, Yorkshire) and Border Television which had somehow managed to retain its independence. Almost 10 years after trying and failing to introduce a single identity across the ITV regions, it was decided a unified ITV look should be attempted again. After all, with fewer companies to please the process should be a piece of cake, right? Wrong! Following fall outs between GMG and Carlton and plenty of picking up balls and going home the October 1998 date for introducing a new generic look was missed. A new network symbol had been chosen (a heart shape) but the companies failed to agree on a design for the idents.

So in 1999, with a unified ITV looking increasingly unlikely, GMG set about creating new full time idents for their 3 northern franchises: Granada, Tyne Tees and Yorkshire. Unfortunately, mere weeks after completion, Carlton announced it was going solo and would be using its own set of Heart idents, designed by Lambie-Nairn. This gave GMG, UNM and Border the green light to launch their generic Hearts. The downside was the above YTV idents, which were far superior in terms of quality to the Heart idents, were relegated to regional use. All 25+ of them!
MK
Mr Kite
rdd posted:
English and Pockett, as I recall.

ISTR one of the reasons that HTV got the star idents was to allow joint continuity with the Carlton branded regions but whether that was ever done I don't know.


Don't think I believe that. Carlton never used joint continuity over London, Central or Westcountry. Also, the different name of the station would've meant any continuity announcer would not be able to mention the station name, GMG North style. Cartlon would've never went for that. One possible operational advantage would've been for HTV Wales, which handled Westcountry's playout, being allowed to line them up i.e. both use the same ident variant and then the announcers in both Cardiff and Plymouth get the same cue to come in. Of course, this wouldn't have helped the playout in Southampton with HTV West. I'm guessing HTV West ended up running largely on its own, with its own continuity (probably pre-recorded). That said, HTV West is the one region where there is virtually no online examples of its presentation during the hearts era.
FN
FromtheNorth
Whilst there were local non heart idents for YTV and TTTV, anyone know why there wasn't a version for Granada?
They did have the same version of local trails with the Granada logo though.
MK
Mr Kite
No. It's a mystery to me. The Yorkshire ones were supposedly GMG North's owned planned rebranded, having probably assumed that the official network ones would never arrive, now Carlton had broken ranks. They'd only made Yorkshire variants by the time the official idents arrived. The fact there were so many variants points to them being intended for full time use. However, I think they may have actually been prototypes as that music was very dull and samey and wouldn't have worked well at every junction of the day but I'm guessing for the few true regional junctions, it was deemed acceptable and a welcome variation to the standard hearts idents. Tyne Tees kept its existing ident for regional junctions. Why, I don't know. Maybe it was felt Tyne Tees shouldn't miss out on regional idents for regional junctions if Yorkshire had them, yet Granada was just left with the standard hearts at all times.

Of course, that Christmas, GMG North forwent the official network Christmas presentation (as used by LWT, UNM regions and Border) for its own presentation in the style of the Yorkshire regional idents. This and the millennium idents were the only true part of GMG North's planned rebrand that would go out as intended on its mini-network.
WP
WillPS
There was an unused variation to the Granada logo from around that period... can't find an example now, used to be on TheTVRoom.

Edit:
Found it!
http://thetvroom.com/images/pool-ex/ex-032/main-001-02.jpg
RD
rdd Founding member
xwing posted:
John posted:
In my view the Carlton 'Star' idents where some of the best presentation ever made. The ITV hearts motifs that made up the format where from, a different design agency - which allowed Lambie-Nairm to use them?
anyone have links to the original test idents again?

Heres a few (plenty more available from the user)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAIzUc5dKIE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_HZ0JiQDBQ

Obviously ended up being plighted by various disagreements from both the companies taking on this look and the designers, and eventually got boiled down to the set of ident's we know today.



Why do I suspect while watching them that they are in fact the "missing" idents from the October 1998 rebrand?
MK
Mr Kite
They are, so far as I know. Shame really, as they were much brighter and fresher than what we eventually got. Goodness knows what GMG North would've done to them though, over the years.

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