Channel 3 North East and Carlton Central/Westcountry

also their are a few itv central staff in Nottingham, far less than what they got since the job cuts at itv in 2008/09 came in

You are quite right, and on the 'way back' too.

I'm not so sure this was the one and only factor. I do believe that the Welsh Government would have, no doubt, had something to say about it but broadcasting is ultimately a UK Government competence. I think if that was all that was stopping Carlton, they'd have not thought twice of rebranding HTV West whilst leaving HTV Wales alone. Like I said further up, regarding C3NE, ITV was changing so fast during this period. Even mid-2000 was very different to Autumn 1999. In the mid to late 90s, it was quite clear that Carlton wanted to make a name for itself, so it could be as famous and highly regarded as the likes of Granada, Thames and even, maybe, the BBC. Despite being established in London as a publisher-broadcaster, it soon used Central to try and make itself a name as a production company too. This was semi-successful as I vividly remember newspapers occassionally referring to Carlton as a Midlands-based company, especially once Lenton Lane became Carlton Studios.

It's just a theory on my part but what I think happened in 1999 was that the UNM merger was on the cards. If that went through, with Meridian included, then the 'cold war' for ITV dominance would've been essentially over, with the winner being this large London-based media agglomerate which owned newspapers as well as all the ITV network south of Crewe, bar, weirdly and somewhat ironically, London at the weekends. This would've, within a few short years at most, have either merged with GMG but being the senior partner as opposed to junior, or just took them over outright. I think the grand plan was that the TV side of this media empire would've been branded Carlton ,eventually replacing ITV as the network Channel 3 brand. The merger fell through and by July 2000, UMN had sold its ITV franchises to GMG. GMG having to surrender HTV to Carlton was small comfort for Carlton. GMG was now larger and had the trump card, the lucrative Meridian franchise. Carlton had lost and they knew it. At this point, it was only a matter of time before the two became one, be it by takeover or merger but the network was never going to be called Carlton now. The dream was over and the rebrand would've been a waste of time. Add to this that the rebranding of Central and Westcountry hardly endeared them to anyone in those areas who cared to take notice. This also meant a Carlton rebrand was anticipated in Wales and the West and so there was a small scale campaign from the beginning to resist any rebrand attempt. I believe a few MPs and AMs in the area became vocal about the prospect.

The ITV1 Wales branding is a case in point really. This was created because the continuity announcers were being retained and they didn't want to appear less Welsh than the BBC in that part of the world. The folks in HTV West were just like any other group of marauding English barstewards, so off to Old London Town they were sent. Carlton would've done the same thing, brand-wise, if it had made sense in 2000. Any special treatment required for the Welsh would probably not have saved HTV West from any planned rebrand.

What I find odd about that is that whilst HTV didn't get rebranded at the time of the Carlton takeover, it still wasn't saved long term; less than 2 years later it was rebranded anyway, with no real fuss from the Welsh assembly even though apparently HTV was one of the most recognised brands in Wales up until it was withdrawn. If the assembly could be pacified by simply plonking 'Wales' onto the end of a national brand, then would they not have been happy if Carlton agreed to have 'Carlton Wales'?


As others have said, even if they agreed to keep HTV Wales, if Carlton were still keen to push ahead with expanding their own brand then they could still have rebranded HTV West to Carlton, it could even have been used as an excuse to bring forward the operational merger with Westcountry which later took place. Yet HTV West survived for another couple of years too. And even after the national rebranding, they still allowed HTV News to continue up until 2004 when the corporate look was introduced.

When we look at the rebranding of Central and Westcountry, I think it's a fair comment that in the main people fell into two camps; a silent majority that couldn't care less and a vocal minority that didn't like it. I don't at the time recall many people who specifically felt it to be a good thing, but the lack of any real support for the rebranding didn't stop Carlton at the time. Their actions a year later must have been at least partly due to a change of heart in Carlton towers by that time - I doubt that the Welsh assembly and a few angered Bristolians either had the clout or the mainstream support to stop them from killing HTV off in 2000 had they really wanted to do it.

Which led to the mess that was HTV News, a Carlton production for ITV1 Wales.

Or HTV West news which became 'An HTV News Production' for Carlton on ITV1 West of England

The real reason HTV was not re-branded into carlton was because their were 2 many carlton own regions useding the carlton name so if that happen the carlton name would have been used alongside LWT to almost half of england and wales

I thought the real version was because HTV was spilt in two. Since Granada still owned the production side while carlton own the transmission side?

no that was not the reason 623058 its because central and westcountry was useding the carlton name alongside carlton london so it was 2 much for carlton to get rid of HTV, so the HTV's name was kept on screen for now

Not sure I follow the logic. Carlton was already the brand for three franchises, including one very geographically large one in Central and many more individual sub-regions. I don't see how adding the HTV franchise to this would've suddenly made the branding impractical. It was already regionally vague (i.e. people often thought it was a Midlands/Nottingham-based company) and this vagueness was deliberate. Carlton wanted to transcend regions and be a national brand.

The production split is an interesting aspect but rather than stop any rebrand, woudn't it have been a great excuse for Cartlon to use in order to make the distinction between the Carlton-owned part and the GMG-owned part?

Well the carlton name was used on both central and westcountry regions and the 2 regions was still called central and westcountry and although the HTV was kept, the HTV name used on promo;s for local news and local programmes was dropped and was replace with itv/itv1 promo's done at carlton central in gas street. and plus 2 many carlton own regions was useding the name carlton for their region was the reason carlton could not get rid of HTV

It would have been far easier for the people in Gas street just to make one single set of promos with Carlton name for all areas?