RD
rdd
Founding member
Someone earlier in the thread who had seen the UEFA design manual said there wasn't one?
That said I do recall that for the 2012 Champions League final, I (for my sins) watched Sky's 3D presentation of the game and that the scorebar appeared to be different to the usual Sky style - more similar to what RTE were using at the time I think.
That said I do recall that for the 2012 Champions League final, I (for my sins) watched Sky's 3D presentation of the game and that the scorebar appeared to be different to the usual Sky style - more similar to what RTE were using at the time I think.
S7
Some earth-shattering news
You're absolutely right. And it means Sky's wasn't the first.
From the YouTube channel BBL 80s 90s:
CHANNEL 4 BASKETBALL
Bolton Bees v Manchester Giants, 1983/1984
This was in the English competition, the National Basketball League, which was televised from November 1982 until 1985. The scoreboard graphic is visible on all shots from the main camera at the halfway (division) line – in fact, it seems to be fed directly to that camera, rather than the graphic being operated separately. It isn't on close-ups and replays, quite a smart move, as it meant those shots didn't have to be framed to include it.
It predates Sky's by eight or nine years, but it's as much a 'real' scorebar as theirs (which also wasn't on-screen 100% of the time). And C4's does all the things we've talked about here: it remains on when points are added, it's very handy to inform viewers in a fast-moving sport, and it looks not entirely terrible. Team colours, even.
The uploader doesn't give a year, but I'm confident in saying this is from the 1983/1984 season. The commentators refer to Bolton's recent promotion from second to first division (1983), and the coaches are Craig Lynch and Tom Becker. That fits with what someone wrote on Wikipedia, although WP only calls the team "Home Ceramics Bolton", not the "Bees", until the '84/'85 season. The coverage includes a chat with footballer Steve Coppell, who retired in 1983.
One other C4 clip, which gives a better flavour of the show. Did you know Manchester United had a basketball team?
Manchester Giants v Manchester United, 1984/1985 (watermarked)
This game seems to be from 1985, as Man United took over the club Liverpool & Warrington in January of that year, and renamed them. (But "Warrington" is still mentioned on-air at one point.) After this 85-76 win, Man Utd went through the playoffs and won the championship final. After that, Channel 4 greatly reduced its coverage of the league, which became the BBL in 1987.
Small changes in the '85 graphics: larger, clearer team names (seen at the start of the half) and single digits on the clock (1:23 instead of 01:23).
Channel 4's 1980s basketball shows weren't a success, but it's amazing how early they employed this device that Sky later got the credit for. Just another example of the '80s channel's forward thinking. Or maybe they were just desperate to jazz up the coverage. (Not sure if they used scorebars on their earliest games in 1982.)
So, there certainly could have been other on-screen scoreboards before 1992
It makes sense that high-scoring basketball had them before football, but I didn't expect it to be British basketball...
Has anyone mentioned the early Channel 4 Monday night British basketball games? Dimly remember a scorebar at the top of the screen, with, IIRC, scores picked out in team colours, and possibly a clock too.
You're absolutely right. And it means Sky's wasn't the first.
From the YouTube channel BBL 80s 90s:
CHANNEL 4 BASKETBALL
Bolton Bees v Manchester Giants, 1983/1984
This was in the English competition, the National Basketball League, which was televised from November 1982 until 1985. The scoreboard graphic is visible on all shots from the main camera at the halfway (division) line – in fact, it seems to be fed directly to that camera, rather than the graphic being operated separately. It isn't on close-ups and replays, quite a smart move, as it meant those shots didn't have to be framed to include it.
It predates Sky's by eight or nine years, but it's as much a 'real' scorebar as theirs (which also wasn't on-screen 100% of the time). And C4's does all the things we've talked about here: it remains on when points are added, it's very handy to inform viewers in a fast-moving sport, and it looks not entirely terrible. Team colours, even.
The uploader doesn't give a year, but I'm confident in saying this is from the 1983/1984 season. The commentators refer to Bolton's recent promotion from second to first division (1983), and the coaches are Craig Lynch and Tom Becker. That fits with what someone wrote on Wikipedia, although WP only calls the team "Home Ceramics Bolton", not the "Bees", until the '84/'85 season. The coverage includes a chat with footballer Steve Coppell, who retired in 1983.
One other C4 clip, which gives a better flavour of the show. Did you know Manchester United had a basketball team?
Manchester Giants v Manchester United, 1984/1985 (watermarked)
This game seems to be from 1985, as Man United took over the club Liverpool & Warrington in January of that year, and renamed them. (But "Warrington" is still mentioned on-air at one point.) After this 85-76 win, Man Utd went through the playoffs and won the championship final. After that, Channel 4 greatly reduced its coverage of the league, which became the BBL in 1987.
Small changes in the '85 graphics: larger, clearer team names (seen at the start of the half) and single digits on the clock (1:23 instead of 01:23).
Channel 4's 1980s basketball shows weren't a success, but it's amazing how early they employed this device that Sky later got the credit for. Just another example of the '80s channel's forward thinking. Or maybe they were just desperate to jazz up the coverage. (Not sure if they used scorebars on their earliest games in 1982.)
So, there certainly could have been other on-screen scoreboards before 1992
It makes sense that high-scoring basketball had them before football, but I didn't expect it to be British basketball...
Last edited by sbahnhof 7 on 3 December 2016 3:22am
GE
The centre line camera in most sports is Camera 1 - after all, it's the one that the director will go back to most often.
It sounds like they were keying the graphic on to that camera on its way in to the vision mixer (an upstream key?), but not on its way to the replay device.
No, but I'm not surprised - a lot of European football teams have other clubs associated with them. Take a look at the current EuroLeague teams for a few examples.
thegeek
Founding member
This was in the English competition, the National Basketball League, which was televised from November 1982 until 1985. The scoreboard graphic is visible on all shots from the main camera at the halfway (division) line – in fact, it seems to be fed directly to that camera, rather than the graphic being operated separately. It isn't on close-ups and replays, quite a smart move, as it meant those shots didn't have to be framed to include it.
It sounds like they were keying the graphic on to that camera on its way in to the vision mixer (an upstream key?), but not on its way to the replay device.
One other C4 clip, which gives a better flavour of the show. Did you know Manchester United had a basketball team?
KP
This thread is a corker! Could be my fav ever on TVF. 
I liked the BBC Sport graphics/Dog of the mid 2000's with the 'Yellow line' animating in with the red and black bars.
Also the big revamp Sky graphics from season 2005/06 to the beginning of 2007/08...
Although really big now compared to today's standards - ITV's 2 line DOG which animated a team logo when they scored in the early 2000's was quite cool. However their 2004 post-Premiership era ones were weird for me, looked like This Is Football PS2 game...
ITV's graphics have went down hill in recent years... their 2006 Uniformed look trying to be like BBC were horrible... Amazing the likes of the BTCC and Darts still use the same shell.
Also on a side note I liked the era of spinning 3d logos - Not really utilised as much any more!
Uefa wise. I liked the mid-2000s era UCL graphics. The previous version of the UCL graphics pre-2015/16 I've been working with lately are quite neat though. 
I liked the BBC Sport graphics/Dog of the mid 2000's with the 'Yellow line' animating in with the red and black bars.
Also the big revamp Sky graphics from season 2005/06 to the beginning of 2007/08...
Although really big now compared to today's standards - ITV's 2 line DOG which animated a team logo when they scored in the early 2000's was quite cool. However their 2004 post-Premiership era ones were weird for me, looked like This Is Football PS2 game...
ITV's graphics have went down hill in recent years... their 2006 Uniformed look trying to be like BBC were horrible... Amazing the likes of the BTCC and Darts still use the same shell.
Also on a side note I liked the era of spinning 3d logos - Not really utilised as much any more!
Uefa wise. I liked the mid-2000s era UCL graphics. The previous version of the UCL graphics pre-2015/16 I've been working with lately are quite neat though.
BR
Just having the misfortune of catching some of the snooker earlier and the most interesting thing I got out of it is how the scorebar like in the basketball clip above is designed to only be on the central camera shot. A quick hunt through Youtube suggests it was 1995 when it debuted on the BBC coverage of snooker - before then the score was just flashed up periodically - for a couple of years prior with a simple but nice enough graphic every few shots and before that just white text very occassionally.
JO
I'm surprised you only just noticed this.
Come to think of it the 2002 package is interesting because I think it's the only sport outside of football (and Wimbledon) that had it's own style.
Think this was era they had some Lennox Lewis fights and they also had their own grey graphics.
Just having the misfortune of catching some of the snooker earlier and the most interesting thing I got out of it is how the scorebar like in the basketball clip above is designed to only be on the central camera shot.
I'm surprised you only just noticed this.
Come to think of it the 2002 package is interesting because I think it's the only sport outside of football (and Wimbledon) that had it's own style.
Think this was era they had some Lennox Lewis fights and they also had their own grey graphics.
NJ
Neil Jones
Founding member
Pretty sure the 1995 and 1997 snooker scorebars, like pretty much everything else at the time was simply the "corporate" font used on Grandstand. Anything that was ever presented as part of Grandstand in the 1990s that had on screen text was done in that one font so you'd have it on the scorebars, Final Score, the Vidiprinter, the league tables, astons, the credits... everything.
I believe it was after the 1997 BBC rebrand as a whole that Sports got their own style as such which may have been adapted to various sports, ie everything stopped toeing the Grandstand presentation line.
I believe it was after the 1997 BBC rebrand as a whole that Sports got their own style as such which may have been adapted to various sports, ie everything stopped toeing the Grandstand presentation line.
SP
Anybody remember these classic cricket graphics, every word in its own blue box
I think live coverage even used that format for the closing credits, highlights may have had something more standard.
I remember with that style the credit for Honeywell Bull computer was just regular text and pretty conspicuous.
I think live coverage even used that format for the closing credits, highlights may have had something more standard.
I remember with that style the credit for Honeywell Bull computer was just regular text and pretty conspicuous.