JA
Hadn't Breakfast Time already moved from Lime Grove to TV Centre by that time anyway?
Was it industrial action that delayed it? It was always stated on air as problems with the new studio, which seemed credible as they were moving from Lime Grove to TV Centre.
Hadn't Breakfast Time already moved from Lime Grove to TV Centre by that time anyway?
:-(
A former member
Breakfast time finished at 08.30 when it moved to the desk. By March breakfast time was back to finishing at 8.55 for the local news. Before xmas that slot was held by Open air preview.
Here is the clip in question:
Here is the clip in question:
SW
But the obvious problem with ITV's line-up is that it's all the bloody same. Lorraine does the same thing as This Morning which does the same thing as Loose Women, and I will never understand why the latter two are right next to each other in the schedule. They are virtually identical programmes involving loads of aimless talk. I would hardly suggest that they're any kind of hotbed of creativity.
Yes, there are staples in the BBC1 daytime schedule, but there's also lots of short-run series that provide variation, most obviously in the 9.15 and 2.15 slots. This week they're showing a period drama. What with Doctors they also have new British drama every week of the year. ITV don't have any. I don't see regular current affairs and docusoaps on ITV daytime either. And even if they show programmes on the same subject, it doesn't mean they're all the same. My parents like Antiques Road Trip, they don't like Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is. I know they look similar but clearly they're different enough for my parents to prefer one to the other.
Certainly the daytime line-up on BBC1 is much better than it was in the days of Daytime UK and Anne and Nick. It was bloody awful, and nobody watched it. And, indeed...
There were indeed strikes in both. I remember in 1986 they announced it was the last of the old style Breakfast Time and there was a cartoon in the Radio Times showing a workman prising the sun logo off the set, with the idea being that it would be relaunched to coincide with the relaunch of daytime, but it wasn't. There was indeed a dispute about staffing levels (including the fact there wouldn't be a newsreader, in the days when news and current affairs were still different departments) and hence it didn't relaunch until mid-November, after the rest of the daytime schedule had started. Then they had the same problem in 1989 where, as you say, it was delayed by two weeks again.
It wasn't related to the move from Lime Grove to TV Centre, though, because that happened during the run of Breakfast Time, I think it was some time in 1988 they moved across.
Well, the idea of the new Breakfast Time was that it was going to be "most brisk and business-like", hence the reduced running time. It's a bit like the idea the mad Radio 4 controller Iain McIntyre had in the mid-seventies, that all the current affairs programmes were too long and bloated and if they were shorter they would be more concise and harder-hitting, so he chopped Today down into two half hour programmes with the crap Up To The Hour taking on all the lighter stuff, plus The World At One to half an hour and PM to forty minutes.
Presumably it was the same idea with the new Breakfast Time, rather than having one show doing news and lighter stuff, there would be Breakfast Time doing the news and then other shows doing the lighter stuff. As mentioned, for a while Watchdog was on at 8.40 (that was an attempt to relaunch it because the original Watchdog series on Sunday afternoons hadn't done very well) and sometimes Open Air would be at 8.40 too.
I guess the idea was also that they wanted to start the daytime shows earlier to get a head start on ITV. And when there were no daytime shows, they shoved Laverne and Shirley at 8.30 instead, although clearly later on they'd gone off that idea and Breakfast Time ran on until nine o'clock again. But when Daytime UK started, that began at 8.50, again to get a head start on ITV. And I think the main reason they launched Breakfast News Extra, as mentioned here before, in 1996 was so they could start shows at 9.20 and get a jump on ITV who started their daytime line-up at 9.25.
One of the things that really sets BBC and ITV daytime apart is live programming. Barring Jeremy Kyle, ITV has lots of live programming right up until the afternoon: Good Morning Britain, Lorraine, This Morning, Loose Women, and of course the ITV Lunchtime News. This Morning in particular I feel is still a real asset to the ITV daytime schedule being able to react well to the latest news topics as well as regular features, although I think it still misses Richard and Judy really (or at least, Philip and Fern).
But the obvious problem with ITV's line-up is that it's all the bloody same. Lorraine does the same thing as This Morning which does the same thing as Loose Women, and I will never understand why the latter two are right next to each other in the schedule. They are virtually identical programmes involving loads of aimless talk. I would hardly suggest that they're any kind of hotbed of creativity.
Yes, there are staples in the BBC1 daytime schedule, but there's also lots of short-run series that provide variation, most obviously in the 9.15 and 2.15 slots. This week they're showing a period drama. What with Doctors they also have new British drama every week of the year. ITV don't have any. I don't see regular current affairs and docusoaps on ITV daytime either. And even if they show programmes on the same subject, it doesn't mean they're all the same. My parents like Antiques Road Trip, they don't like Put Your Money Where Your Mouth Is. I know they look similar but clearly they're different enough for my parents to prefer one to the other.
Certainly the daytime line-up on BBC1 is much better than it was in the days of Daytime UK and Anne and Nick. It was bloody awful, and nobody watched it. And, indeed...
BBC1 still wipes the floor with ITV in terms of ratings. The viewers clearly prefer the repeats!
Are you sure? Wasn't it the change from Breakfast Time (which started at 7am) to Breakfast News (starting at 6:30am)n 1989 that was delayed by 2 weeks due to industrial action? Or was there a strike in 1986 too?
There were indeed strikes in both. I remember in 1986 they announced it was the last of the old style Breakfast Time and there was a cartoon in the Radio Times showing a workman prising the sun logo off the set, with the idea being that it would be relaunched to coincide with the relaunch of daytime, but it wasn't. There was indeed a dispute about staffing levels (including the fact there wouldn't be a newsreader, in the days when news and current affairs were still different departments) and hence it didn't relaunch until mid-November, after the rest of the daytime schedule had started. Then they had the same problem in 1989 where, as you say, it was delayed by two weeks again.
It wasn't related to the move from Lime Grove to TV Centre, though, because that happened during the run of Breakfast Time, I think it was some time in 1988 they moved across.
I think this has been raised before but can anyone shed any light on why BBC One showed Laverne & Shirley after Breakfast Time (around 8.40am) in 1988? Seems like a baffling idea.
Well, the idea of the new Breakfast Time was that it was going to be "most brisk and business-like", hence the reduced running time. It's a bit like the idea the mad Radio 4 controller Iain McIntyre had in the mid-seventies, that all the current affairs programmes were too long and bloated and if they were shorter they would be more concise and harder-hitting, so he chopped Today down into two half hour programmes with the crap Up To The Hour taking on all the lighter stuff, plus The World At One to half an hour and PM to forty minutes.
Presumably it was the same idea with the new Breakfast Time, rather than having one show doing news and lighter stuff, there would be Breakfast Time doing the news and then other shows doing the lighter stuff. As mentioned, for a while Watchdog was on at 8.40 (that was an attempt to relaunch it because the original Watchdog series on Sunday afternoons hadn't done very well) and sometimes Open Air would be at 8.40 too.
I guess the idea was also that they wanted to start the daytime shows earlier to get a head start on ITV. And when there were no daytime shows, they shoved Laverne and Shirley at 8.30 instead, although clearly later on they'd gone off that idea and Breakfast Time ran on until nine o'clock again. But when Daytime UK started, that began at 8.50, again to get a head start on ITV. And I think the main reason they launched Breakfast News Extra, as mentioned here before, in 1996 was so they could start shows at 9.20 and get a jump on ITV who started their daytime line-up at 9.25.
IS
I guess the idea was also that they wanted to start the daytime shows earlier to get a head start on ITV. And when there were no daytime shows, they shoved Laverne and Shirley at 8.30 instead, although clearly later on they'd gone off that idea and Breakfast Time ran on until nine o'clock again. But when Daytime UK started, that began at 8.50, again to get a head start on ITV.
At the time TVam's long running lifestyle programme was called 'After 9' a name which limited them bringing that forward.
Daytime UK was an odd beast - it came from Birmingham with Judi Spiers linking all the different elements - from a little studio at Pebble Mill*. The other main live part was People Today, from Manchester (presumably utilising the team who produced Open Air) which was all rather serious. Kilroy was a part of it too as was the old Pebble Mill programme which had been brought back as 'Daytime Live' a few years earlier was reduced to 35 minutes and renamed the terrible: 'Scene Today'
It's one of those things that probably seemed a nice idea at the time but just seemed so overdone and like they were trying too hard. Most of the links seemed to be Judi linking to another studio to ask about what was coming up, as as you can see from the listings there's an odd 15 minutes at 11:45 where it seems to just be a odd hybrid of the two programmes.
The thing that scuppered it though was that it started in October 90 and in Jan 1991 Operation Desert Storm started, I seem to remember that the news bulletins got longer and sometimes rolled all morning and Daytime UK was left in tatters. Though even before that a couple of their early editions got interrupted by the resignation of Margaret Thatcher and a week later John Major arriving at no. 10.
The schedule from a year later is a lot more simple, though the dull 'People Today' is still there. Then in 1992 they clear the board and just copy ITV. Personally I preferred Ann & Nick to Richard & Judy
*and in a homage to Gus Hunneybun, she had a puppet companion to introduce CBBC, the appalingly named 'Maximum Monkey'
I guess the idea was also that they wanted to start the daytime shows earlier to get a head start on ITV. And when there were no daytime shows, they shoved Laverne and Shirley at 8.30 instead, although clearly later on they'd gone off that idea and Breakfast Time ran on until nine o'clock again. But when Daytime UK started, that began at 8.50, again to get a head start on ITV.
At the time TVam's long running lifestyle programme was called 'After 9' a name which limited them bringing that forward.
Quote:
Certainly the daytime line-up on BBC1 is much better than it was in the days of Daytime UK and Anne and Nick. It was bloody awful, and nobody watched it. And, indeed...
Daytime UK was an odd beast - it came from Birmingham with Judi Spiers linking all the different elements - from a little studio at Pebble Mill*. The other main live part was People Today, from Manchester (presumably utilising the team who produced Open Air) which was all rather serious. Kilroy was a part of it too as was the old Pebble Mill programme which had been brought back as 'Daytime Live' a few years earlier was reduced to 35 minutes and renamed the terrible: 'Scene Today'
It's one of those things that probably seemed a nice idea at the time but just seemed so overdone and like they were trying too hard. Most of the links seemed to be Judi linking to another studio to ask about what was coming up, as as you can see from the listings there's an odd 15 minutes at 11:45 where it seems to just be a odd hybrid of the two programmes.
The thing that scuppered it though was that it started in October 90 and in Jan 1991 Operation Desert Storm started, I seem to remember that the news bulletins got longer and sometimes rolled all morning and Daytime UK was left in tatters. Though even before that a couple of their early editions got interrupted by the resignation of Margaret Thatcher and a week later John Major arriving at no. 10.
The schedule from a year later is a lot more simple, though the dull 'People Today' is still there. Then in 1992 they clear the board and just copy ITV. Personally I preferred Ann & Nick to Richard & Judy
*and in a homage to Gus Hunneybun, she had a puppet companion to introduce CBBC, the appalingly named 'Maximum Monkey'
SW
In the Radio Times piece to launch the second incarnation of Daytime UK, the editor said that the previous year they'd often gone round the regions for the sake of it, and the low point was "a ten minute item on how to boil an egg".
BBC1 daytime did alright for its first two years, obviously for the first year it had no opposition as ITV still had schools programmes, and then it took ITV a while to work out a winning formula, but then in 1988 This Morning launched and, as Richard Madeley pointed out "We just took away all their viewers". And for years BBC1 daytime was a terrible mess, with endless revamps that all flopped.
It's one of those things that probably seemed a nice idea at the time but just seemed so overdone and like they were trying too hard. Most of the links seemed to be Judi linking to another studio to ask about what was coming up, as as you can see from the listings there's an odd 15 minutes at 11:45 where it seems to just be a odd hybrid of the two programmes.
In the Radio Times piece to launch the second incarnation of Daytime UK, the editor said that the previous year they'd often gone round the regions for the sake of it, and the low point was "a ten minute item on how to boil an egg".
BBC1 daytime did alright for its first two years, obviously for the first year it had no opposition as ITV still had schools programmes, and then it took ITV a while to work out a winning formula, but then in 1988 This Morning launched and, as Richard Madeley pointed out "We just took away all their viewers". And for years BBC1 daytime was a terrible mess, with endless revamps that all flopped.
NT
I think what has made BBC daytime programming far less interesting is the stripping of programmes across the week. Even when The Day Today and Ready Steady Cook were staples, you still got a bit of variation at 6pm on BBC Two. There's a lot to be said for how interesting the programmes on Daytime on Two was ( when it had secondary and adult education content ).
I think the other annoyance IMO is the fact that some series such as Pointless never end, it just goes from one series to a repeat run. I used to enjoy Pointless, but it's wearing thin for me.
I know stripping of programmes and ongoing series mean that the viewer knows exactly what is on and when, but lacks creativity.
Even however many years ago it was last broadcast, Call My Bluff was a welcome break at midday from " normal " daytime fare.
And I totally agree with some of the earlier comments that it's a poor show when a bank holiday or a weekend now means more of the same. At Christmas they seem to be stuck because of children's channels they don't see it necessary to show " normal " children's programming on the BBC / ITV, as they have the specialised channels. There's only so much Shrek and similar films you can show.
I think the other annoyance IMO is the fact that some series such as Pointless never end, it just goes from one series to a repeat run. I used to enjoy Pointless, but it's wearing thin for me.
I know stripping of programmes and ongoing series mean that the viewer knows exactly what is on and when, but lacks creativity.
Even however many years ago it was last broadcast, Call My Bluff was a welcome break at midday from " normal " daytime fare.
And I totally agree with some of the earlier comments that it's a poor show when a bank holiday or a weekend now means more of the same. At Christmas they seem to be stuck because of children's channels they don't see it necessary to show " normal " children's programming on the BBC / ITV, as they have the specialised channels. There's only so much Shrek and similar films you can show.
DE
I've not seen anyone mention the in-vision continuity from Pebble Mill for a very long time (if ever!) Thought I was the only person that remembered it. I seem to recall Mo Dutta doing it, rather than Judi Spiers, but I'm sure she was there too. I have no recollection of Maximum Monkey - what a dreadful name! Must be the only time since the 50s that the BBC had any in-vision continuity. Was it done from the Presentation Studio at the Mill?
Another oddity from slightly later was The Really Useful Show, which I believe came from Studio 1 (originally an orchestral radio studio) rather than Studio A or C (The Foyer). It had a very noticeable 'live' sound (noticeable to me at any rate) - quite open and not dead like a proper tv studio. Don't remember that lasting more than a couple of series.
Another oddity from slightly later was The Really Useful Show, which I believe came from Studio 1 (originally an orchestral radio studio) rather than Studio A or C (The Foyer). It had a very noticeable 'live' sound (noticeable to me at any rate) - quite open and not dead like a proper tv studio. Don't remember that lasting more than a couple of series.
HC
I wished The Day Today really was part of the daytime line up..
.. Even when The Day Today and Ready Steady Cook were staples, you still got a bit of variation at 6pm on BBC Two..
I wished The Day Today really was part of the daytime line up..
HC
I was 'resting' between college and finding real work at the time, and from what I remember, it appeared to be done on a fixed one camera PSC from a converted office, just off reception, with the Windows behind Judy looking out across the front of Pebble Mill, with the windows of the foyer ( Studio C) taking up most of the view.
Desk, small tv monitor to her side, and that was it.
Odd thing though, Weather Updates came from TVC by the duty forecaster (although it seemed mostly to be Bill Giles or Ian McCaskill) but not in front of the usual green screen map, but from cupboard studio set up as Pebble Mill, but with no real view to speak of.
Must be the only time since the 50s that the BBC had any in-vision continuity. Was it done from the Presentation Studio at the Mill?
I was 'resting' between college and finding real work at the time, and from what I remember, it appeared to be done on a fixed one camera PSC from a converted office, just off reception, with the Windows behind Judy looking out across the front of Pebble Mill, with the windows of the foyer ( Studio C) taking up most of the view.
Desk, small tv monitor to her side, and that was it.
Odd thing though, Weather Updates came from TVC by the duty forecaster (although it seemed mostly to be Bill Giles or Ian McCaskill) but not in front of the usual green screen map, but from cupboard studio set up as Pebble Mill, but with no real view to speak of.
SW
Mo Dutta was a bit later, when the morning was rebranded as The Morning On BBC1 in 1994 - http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1994-10-31. Which was just the same old programmes but with Mo Dutta doing Broom Cupboard-style links between them, launched during the brief period when Anne and Nick started at 10am to get the jump on This Morning. And then humiliatingly shoved back to 10.30 a few months later to make way for 'stEnders repeats.
This wasn't exclusive to Daytime UK, they did the daytime forecasts from the office for many years, there's an example here as part of David Baldwin's brilliant channel...
Presumably they decided they didn't want to tie up Pres A all day with regular weather forecasts? I do remember from the school holidays that the 11am bulletin always featured the weather for mainland Europe.
I've not seen anyone mention the in-vision continuity from Pebble Mill for a very long time (if ever!) Thought I was the only person that remembered it. I seem to recall Mo Dutta doing it, rather than Judi Spiers, but I'm sure she was there too.
Mo Dutta was a bit later, when the morning was rebranded as The Morning On BBC1 in 1994 - http://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/schedules/bbcone/london/1994-10-31. Which was just the same old programmes but with Mo Dutta doing Broom Cupboard-style links between them, launched during the brief period when Anne and Nick started at 10am to get the jump on This Morning. And then humiliatingly shoved back to 10.30 a few months later to make way for 'stEnders repeats.
Odd thing though, Weather Updates came from TVC by the duty forecaster (although it seemed mostly to be Bill Giles or Ian McCaskill) but not in front of the usual green screen map, but from cupboard studio set up as Pebble Mill, but with no real view to speak of.
This wasn't exclusive to Daytime UK, they did the daytime forecasts from the office for many years, there's an example here as part of David Baldwin's brilliant channel...
Presumably they decided they didn't want to tie up Pres A all day with regular weather forecasts? I do remember from the school holidays that the 11am bulletin always featured the weather for mainland Europe.