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What could have made On/ITV Digital a success?

Imagining an alternate future for DTT. (July 2016)

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PI
picard
Oh yes, can anyone rememeber during the period after ITV Digital went bust when they were trying to get people to send their boxes back, and they had one of the administators on, I think, Radio 5 pathetically sobbing "I want my boxes back".

Edit- there's an audio link on this BBC article, if you can still play back Real Audio files (Seems he was talking to Victoria Derbyshire!):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2561331.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/audio/38574000/rm/_38574039_itv07_shearson.ram

The main problem they had was with the prepaid boxes - although you were supposed to be buying the subscription and merely being lent the box on free rental the reality is these were just sold with no details taken and no ID required from the store just like anything else, you did have to call to register with OD but again they would just activate the viewing card on the call and accept whatever details were taken with no checks done at all and no way of telling when people moved.


Their systems for tracking and collecting boxes were also extremely poor. When my original prepaid subscription ran out (which I had a Philips box on) I let it lapse in order to register as a monthly subscriber to get a new Pioneer box. Although they stated my original Philips box would be collected it never was, and they never deactivated the viewing card; I passed the setup on to my sister and it carried on running right through to ITV Digital's collapse without a peep from them!


And with my new Pioneer, one evening it appeared to have tuner failure, displaying 'no signal' (well, a red square because that's what they did!) on every channel even though everything was connected. I called customer services and they agreed to swap the box. About an hour after the call I realised this was because the dist amp in the attic had blown a fuse but I was too embarrassed to call back and tell them and decided to let the box swap happen anyway. When my new box was delivered I tried to pass the old one back to the delivery guy but he said he had no collection paperwork and couldn't take the old one away (just as well since the new one was a second hand Pace box).

So in the end I ended up in possession of 3 boxes and a renewed prepaid subscription for free - and this was an address where they knew the whereabouts of everything!

The administrators stating that they would intend to take legal action to recover the boxes if people refused to return them when they didn't have the capital to bring such proceedings (would need to be a county court claim and bailiff instructions as this would be a simple breach of contract claim) or even know where half these boxes were was laughable.

But again probably another reason why they collapsed.

The prepaid boxes were not rented at all, they became the property of whoever bought them. The ONdigital 1998 plc (In Liquidation) website confirms this: http://web.archive.org/web/20050308090146/http://www.ondigital-in-liquidation.co.uk/FAQ.html#q17

I'm not sure they had any method of 'downgrading' a viewing card effectively. My Dad dropped from the 'all the channels' option to the 'pick 5' option, and although he paid less they never actually restricted access. I wonder if the same would happen if he subscribed to FilmFour for just a month?


I always thought they were loaned?

Quote:
Liquidators Grant Thornton will start sending letters to former customers of the digital terrestrial television firm tomorrow saying that the boxes were only loaned by ITV Digital and must be bought or returned.


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2002/dec/10/broadcasting.itvdigital

Anyway, they never did ask for mine back.
LL
London Lite Founding member
Personally I think pay tv is back in for entertainment. Game of Thrones is exclusive to Sky Atlantic as part of the HBO rights. Now you can either pay a shedload to Sky to watch in 1080i or on NOW TV at 720p for £6.99pm.

IPTV has given Sky the opportunity to capture a similar market to those who would have subscribed to ITV/OnDigital without the linear distribution costs or the customer either being locked into a contract or pre-pay deal.

Of the channels Sky have for NOW TV's entertainment pass, two are exclusive to Sky (ITV Encore & Sky Atlantic) and the other channels have output you may actually watch. There's no duds like the Carlton branded channels here and slating is becoming rare, which was all too common on ITV Digital.
MR
mr_vivian
Quote:
I was really jealous of people who had sky/cable/ITV Digital back then but now I don't really think I missed much.

It depended on what you wanted to watch and how quickly you cared about watching it. The big player which subscription TV has (and still has now) is sport, beyond that most things would make their way onto analogue terrestrial eventually, but you were in for a long old wait, far longer than you are these days.

The big UK-comissioned dramas and the big soaps were obviously still on the main 4 channels, just like they still are now.

Where having Sky really came into it's own is with the US imports. Series like The Simpsons did not get aired outside of Sky One until 1996, similarly all the other big US series of the day (ER, Friends, the various Star Treks etc) were often aired on terrestrial channels several years behind the airing on Sky. The archive channels like UK Gold were also far more useful in the day seeing as in those days there weren't so many repeats on the 4 terrestrial channels because of all the new content to fit onto it.

When it came to films - the average 'ITV Movie Premiere' in the mid-90's would be for a film 3 or 4 years old, whereas it would have been on Sky Movies the same year it was released.

Genre-specific channels like Discovery, MTV and kids channels also got you far more of a given genre then you'd ever get on terrestrial channels and were good if you felt like something other than Corrie or Eastenders to watch in the evening.

This didn't really start to change until around 1999/2000, which sadly was the very time OD was trying to raise it's profile.

Freeview arguably had little worth watching on it until several years after launch, and of course now you'll get a US import on a free channel generally within a year (sometimes even a few months) of the airing on a pay channel, making it far less of a big deal to see it first on Sky. It also should be remembered that Sky's pricing used to be far more reasonable (even allowing for inflation). Right now I would agree with you, I don't subscribe to anything any more, but back in the day I was glad to have pay TV, it did add an awful lot.


Yup, agree with all of this.

Today it is so much easier to watch what you want to watch. As you've pointed out - it was a completely different world to the world we have now so subscription TV was more appealing back then.
MR
mr_vivian
Personally I think pay tv is back in for entertainment. Game of Thrones is exclusive to Sky Atlantic as part of the HBO rights. Now you can either pay a shedload to Sky to watch in 1080i or on NOW TV at 720p for £6.99pm.

IPTV has given Sky the opportunity to capture a similar market to those who would have subscribed to ITV/OnDigital without the linear distribution costs or the customer either being locked into a contract or pre-pay deal.

Of the channels Sky have for NOW TV's entertainment pass, two are exclusive to Sky (ITV Encore & Sky Atlantic) and the other channels have output you may actually watch. There's no duds like the Carlton branded channels here and slating is becoming rare, which was all too common on ITV Digital.


Yep agree with this too. NOW TV is pretty decent. You know, if you try to cancel it they will give you a discount for a few months. Little tip there Wink
MA
madmusician
For me, as a cricket fan who never had Sky, Now TV is ideal - if I have a day or week when I know that I'll be free to spend lots of time watching a test match, I'll buy a Now TV pass. I wouldn't be going near Sky otherwise (my domestic circumstances at present just aren't suited to getting a Sky subscription), but I'll happily splash out on a Now TV day or week pass for Sky Sports as an occasional treat. So that's about £50 a year that Sky are getting from me that they otherwise wouldn't have been.
DJ
DJGM

The prepaid boxes were not rented at all, they became the property of whoever bought them.


I had a prepaid OnDigital box back in 2000 that was reclaimed by ITV Digital when it went bust. I had a letter from ITV Digital saying a courier would be collecting the box on a specific date, and on that date, a courier did indeed come to collect the box. It had been made quite clear from the outset that the OnDigital box wasn't my property and I'd only purchased a subscription to the OnDigital services, but not the actual hardware I'd acquired to view the services.
RE
Rex
Quote:
I was really jealous of people who had sky/cable/ITV Digital back then but now I don't really think I missed much.

It depended on what you wanted to watch and how quickly you cared about watching it. The big player which subscription TV has (and still has now) is sport, beyond that most things would make their way onto analogue terrestrial eventually, but you were in for a long old wait, far longer than you are these days.

The big UK-comissioned dramas and the big soaps were obviously still on the main 4 channels, just like they still are now.

Where having Sky really came into it's own is with the US imports. Series like The Simpsons did not get aired outside of Sky One until 1996, similarly all the other big US series of the day (ER, Friends, the various Star Treks etc) were often aired on terrestrial channels several years behind the airing on Sky. The archive channels like UK Gold were also far more useful in the day seeing as in those days there weren't so many repeats on the 4 terrestrial channels because of all the new content to fit onto it.

When it came to films - the average 'ITV Movie Premiere' in the mid-90's would be for a film 3 or 4 years old, whereas it would have been on Sky Movies the same year it was released.

Genre-specific channels like Discovery, MTV and kids channels also got you far more of a given genre then you'd ever get on terrestrial channels and were good if you felt like something other than Corrie or Eastenders to watch in the evening.

This didn't really start to change until around 1999/2000, which sadly was the very time OD was trying to raise it's profile.

Freeview arguably had little worth watching on it until several years after launch, and of course now you'll get a US import on a free channel generally within a year (sometimes even a few months) of the airing on a pay channel, making it far less of a big deal to see it first on Sky. It also should be remembered that Sky's pricing used to be far more reasonable (even allowing for inflation). Right now I would agree with you, I don't subscribe to anything any more, but back in the day I was glad to have pay TV, it did add an awful lot.

I'd say nowadays some of the content that formed the basis for pay TV - especially genre specific channels, are now finding a better home on Freeview. Quest for example is bringing in a lot of Discovery content that wouldn't have been available on Freeview 10 years ago, along with its original programming to boot. Other channels such as the CBS channels, Home, Food Network etc, have found a place on Freeview.
Pick used to be utter s***e when it was branded Sky3, now it seems to treat the Freeview audience with better respect by bringing in a wealth of programmes otherwise locked down to Sky's pay channels. UKTV are now planning to bring more of their services onto Freeview, considering that a few channels can draw out a niche on the platform.

In regards to pay TV, Now TV offers a decent pay lite service with the more popular pay channels without a contract. So for a pay-refusenik its a viable way to access pay TV on the cheap.
LL
London Lite Founding member
Quote:
I was really jealous of people who had sky/cable/ITV Digital back then but now I don't really think I missed much.

It depended on what you wanted to watch and how quickly you cared about watching it. The big player which subscription TV has (and still has now) is sport, beyond that most things would make their way onto analogue terrestrial eventually, but you were in for a long old wait, far longer than you are these days.

The big UK-comissioned dramas and the big soaps were obviously still on the main 4 channels, just like they still are now.

Where having Sky really came into it's own is with the US imports. Series like The Simpsons did not get aired outside of Sky One until 1996, similarly all the other big US series of the day (ER, Friends, the various Star Treks etc) were often aired on terrestrial channels several years behind the airing on Sky. The archive channels like UK Gold were also far more useful in the day seeing as in those days there weren't so many repeats on the 4 terrestrial channels because of all the new content to fit onto it.

When it came to films - the average 'ITV Movie Premiere' in the mid-90's would be for a film 3 or 4 years old, whereas it would have been on Sky Movies the same year it was released.

Genre-specific channels like Discovery, MTV and kids channels also got you far more of a given genre then you'd ever get on terrestrial channels and were good if you felt like something other than Corrie or Eastenders to watch in the evening.

This didn't really start to change until around 1999/2000, which sadly was the very time OD was trying to raise it's profile.

Freeview arguably had little worth watching on it until several years after launch, and of course now you'll get a US import on a free channel generally within a year (sometimes even a few months) of the airing on a pay channel, making it far less of a big deal to see it first on Sky. It also should be remembered that Sky's pricing used to be far more reasonable (even allowing for inflation). Right now I would agree with you, I don't subscribe to anything any more, but back in the day I was glad to have pay TV, it did add an awful lot.

I'd say nowadays some of the content that formed the basis for pay TV - especially genre specific channels, are now finding a better home on Freeview. Quest for example is bringing in a lot of Discovery content that wouldn't have been available on Freeview 10 years ago, along with its original programming to boot. Other channels such as the CBS channels, Home, Food Network etc, have found a place on Freeview.
Pick used to be utter s***e when it was branded Sky3, now it seems to treat the Freeview audience with better respect by bringing in a wealth of programmes otherwise locked down to Sky's pay channels. UKTV are now planning to bring more of their services onto Freeview, considering that a few channels can draw out a niche on the platform.


Thanks to the DVB-T2 muxes with limited coverage, it's become a viable proposition for small scale niche channels to join the platform. Vintage TV, Talking Pictures TV and Keep it Country wouldn't have become linear channels otherwise on DTT.
GE
thegeek Founding member
Yep agree with this too. NOW TV is pretty decent. You know, if you try to cancel it they will give you a discount for a few months. Little tip there Wink

That's Sky's business model too. When I cancelled in January, the retention offer started as 30% off for 6 months, and in the time since, has gone as low as 60% off for a year.
MR
mr_vivian
Yep agree with this too. NOW TV is pretty decent. You know, if you try to cancel it they will give you a discount for a few months. Little tip there Wink

That's Sky's business model too. When I cancelled in January, the retention offer started as 30% off for 6 months, and in the time since, has gone as low as 60% off for a year.


Yep, you've got to haggle with sky or they'll take you for a ride.

They count on the people who don't complain.
WH
whoiam989
Yep agree with this too. NOW TV is pretty decent. You know, if you try to cancel it they will give you a discount for a few months. Little tip there Wink

That's Sky's business model too. When I cancelled in January, the retention offer started as 30% off for 6 months, and in the time since, has gone as low as 60% off for a year.

Gosh, I heard the pay TV operators here in South Korea do the similar thing. Any other countries?
NJ
Neil Jones Founding member
Anybody who isn't on an x% deal from Sky for y months isn't looking hard enough, you step through at least two of them every time you go anywhere near the "what can I cancel online" section of your online Sky account.

I said this last time this came up but there's clearly room in the retention department. It looks better for Sky to have a high number of people on the books as subscribers (albeit with a percentage discount) than it does to have them appear in the churn rate.

Anyway...

The likes of Pick and what not used to be a shop window for their other channels, though this was not necessarily a good one - the likes of Ftn for example until the last year or so of its life was pretty much total dross and didn't really paint a good picture of the rest of its channels. Pick was slightly better but was quite blatantly a major push for Sky Digital - though Sky's advertising has always been that pushy type and was (and still is) used to an extent today for cross channel promotion.

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