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Inconsistencies with re-branding?

(August 2017)

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NG
noggin Founding member
james-2001 posted:
VMPhil posted:
LOTSW was shot entirely on film wasn't it?


Well, after 1992 it was, before then it was the usual film video mix, bar the 1991 series which was entirely on video (and also the last to be made in front of an audience).

Also interesting noting the 1992-98 editions were clearly not just shot on film, but edited on film too- quite obvious with the credits with their scratches, grain and weave, often independent of the picture behind it (as video credits would be clean and static, as they were on the show from 1999 onwards). Very strange to see a scratchy, weavy optical film version of the 1990s BBC logo copyright dates.

When you see the 90s editions on Gold, it seems to be a mix of some episodes in 4:3 and some in 14:9, seems to be fairly random from one episode to the next. There's quite a lot of 90s 16mm shot shows that are in 14:9- and still go out that way presumably because that's how they are on the master tapes!


The very last series (or couple of series) were shot 25p HD ISTR - using the Thomson Viper camera?

** Yep - thought so : http://www.4rfv.co.uk/industrynews/49694/last_of_the_summer_wine_uses_viper_filmstream **
JA
james-2001
I think it went HD around 2006- BBC HD seemed to show episodes going back that far.
IS
Inspector Sands
VMPhil posted:

In case anyone was wondering, the big logo appears at the same time as the rest of the credits. (This video also shows how the counters in the 1988 logo disappeared at such small sizes).

Maybe it was done at the same time, although as it's a cut rather than a mix or fade on it would have been very easy to put the BBC logo on later at exactly the right time
TM
ToasterMan
james-2001 posted:
Yeah it's strange how slow it appeared- it was on some regional news titles and BBC Sport in 1988. And with copyrights at the end of the show it appeared inconsistently- there's a small handful of shows in 1989 using the logo, though the only one I've seen from that year with the copyright date in the corporate font that was used until 1997 was Bob Says Opportunity Knocks. A few other examples using the new logo in 1989 were Pebble Mill shows, and it appeared on the relaunched Breakfast News from October too (both with a non-standard font for the copyright date though).

And even when it started appearing regularly on copyright dates in 1990 it wasn't consistent- for example Top Of The Pops switched to the new logo & copyright strap from the first edition of 1990, but there's some shows from much later in the year still using the 70s/80s logo & copyright font (I've seen it on O-Zone editons from August 1990), and there's even a few post-1990 examples, like 1991 episodes of Playdays and the 1993 series of Maid Marian And Her Merry Men!


The Chronicles of Narnia, which aired in late 1989, also used the new logo and corporate font before it became regularly used, right at start of this CBBC continuity clip from 1992, when the bigger BBC logo was added in September;
Last edited by ToasterMan on 5 August 2017 8:45am - 3 times in total
rdobbie and james-2001 gave kudos
BR
Brekkie
Never been a fan of staggered relaunches and think that's a large part of the reason BBC branding is in the mess it's in - by the time they roll out the rebrand across all channels it is time to start again. A rebrand has much more impact when it is all done at once.
MW
Mike W
james-2001 posted:
Inspector Sands posted:
That BBC logo was introduced in 1987 but not used on air regularly until 1990 and not in the channel logos till 1991.

But then things weren't consistent in the past, it's a relatively new concept.


Yeah it's strange how slow it appeared- it was on some regional news titles and BBC Sport in 1988. And with copyrights at the end of the show it appeared inconsistently- there's a small handful of shows in 1989 using the logo, though the only one I've seen from that year with the copyright date in the corporate font that was used until 1997 was Bob Says Opportunity Knocks. A few other examples using the new logo in 1989 were Pebble Mill shows, and it appeared on the relaunched Breakfast News from October too (both with a non-standard font for the copyright date though).


Pebble Mill introduced the 'Pebble Mill Plughole' logo in 1987, which was based around the tri-colour combo that made up TV pictures. They were a very early adopter of the slanted lozenge logo, and as graphics were centralised and shared between both Network and English Regions meant they updated everything pretty much en mass.

There were however discrepancies between the copyright tags, ranging from ' BBC PEBBLE MILL ', 'BBC IN THE MIDLANDS' , 'BBC IN THE MIDLANDS, PEBBLE MILL' and 'PEBBLE MILL PRODUCTION'. Each had the PM Plughole before the BBC logo.

When the 1997 rebrand came around they varied between BBC Birmingham and BBC Pebble Mill - again very strange.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Some inconsistency is natural and appropriate - see also "BBC Manchester" on network productions and "BBC North West" on regional fare.
RW
Robert Williams Founding member
Brekkie posted:
Never been a fan of staggered relaunches and think that's a large part of the reason BBC branding is in the mess it's in - by the time they roll out the rebrand across all channels it is time to start again. A rebrand has much more impact when it is all done at once.

Something like that is going on in radio at the moment, with the roll-out of the new BBC Local Radio jingle package, which began in October 2015 with BBC Radio London, but has still yet to make it all the way round the country, with around 12 out of 40 stations, including in my area, still airing the pre-2015 jingles.


I suppose the difference here is that most listeners only hear the station for their own area, but it's strange, if the intention is for unified branding across the whole of BBC Local Radio, that it takes so long for it to get unified.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Going back to old BBC logos, there's this classic screw up from 1993

http://www.losbarcos.org.uk/index.php/component/joomgallery/image?view=image&format=raw&type=img&id=164

On the other extreme, here's Look North on the day the 1997 logo launched, a Saturday. They were getting a relaunch on the following Monday but still took the trouble to redo their bulletin titles to change the logo. Back then the edit probably wasn't as trivial as it would be now.

NW
nwtv2003
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Some inconsistency is natural and appropriate - see also "BBC Manchester" on network productions and "BBC North West" on regional fare.


Technically although it's BBC Studios I believe it's anything from Manchester now is BBC North.

Talking about inconsistent rebranding, anything from Sky since 1998. The 1998 took four months across four channels. 1997 was the last time Sky rebranded in one go.
SP
Steve in Pudsey
Yes I was thinking more in the same era as the Pebble Mill example.

Sky don't seem to mind their inconsistencies. They're happy to slap the Sky 1 logo all over the League of Their Own set then repeat it on Sky Sports.
JA
JAS84
nwtv2003 posted:
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Some inconsistency is natural and appropriate - see also "BBC Manchester" on network productions and "BBC North West" on regional fare.

Technically although it's BBC Studios I believe it's anything from Manchester now is BBC North.
That's daft, considering North used to be what is now the Yorkshire and Yorks & Lincs regions.

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