SP
Also somewhat unusual having an "Editor" (editorial as apposed to VT) for a non-live programme.
TV
The introduction of the new animated sequence is probably the best thing that could have happened. It's all too easy to obtain alternate static templates of logos; hopefully there aren't too many animated logo files out there to choose from! We should get a consistent looking logo on end captions now at least.
There are so many examples on BBC One and BBC Two each day, where the BBC logo has been reproduced incorrectly on end captions. The branding police clearly don't enforce the guidelines.
As for the 'English Regions' text not being in Gill Sans and being aligned to the baseline of the boxes rather than the 'BBC' lettering, this is nothing new either. Over the years, BBC Manchester productions have aligned 'Manchester' with the baseline of the boxes on many occasions. This has happened time after time after time. Where did this template come from and why was it allowed to happen over such a long period? Even BBC Wales were guilty of this on episodes of 'Doctor Who' from c. 2005.
I note on that guidelines page that it specifies sizes of logos. Again, another aspect of the guidelines that hasn't really ever been enforced. The most blatant example of rule-breaking in that respect has got to be that absolutely massive 'BBC Scotland' logo that has materialised on end captions in recent years.
For the Nations, the guidelines page shows a decent space between the BBC logo and regional identifier. In practice, many end captions don't reflect the templates shown on that page either. BBC Northern Ireland for example, regularly have the regional title right up against the BBC logo.
As I say, the new 'BBC Productions' animated logo will hopefully rid us of the various inconsistencies in end captions where programmes are produced in England. Hopefully, a similar animated logo will be rolled out for the Nations.
Yes, I did wonder about that. Why not use the animated BBC logo on its own? Can't understand why an animated logo wasn't given to NI, Scotland and Wales.
Mind you, if the BBC can't even get the logo right on the front page of their website (with one 'B' wider than the other)...
noggin posted:
Also - the "English Regions" bit of that end cap doesn't look to be the right height or in Gill Sans, and AIUI the baseline should follow the text not the blocks - so the baseline for English Regions should line up with the baseline of the caps BBC not the bottom of the blocks (so not a triumph...)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tvbranding/artwork3.shtml#engprod
Has the rules for network productions made by network production departments in England - but AIUI these are part of BBC Vision (and thus branded as BBC Productions) rather than BBC Nations and Regions.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/commissioning/tvbranding/artwork3.shtml#engprod
Has the rules for network productions made by network production departments in England - but AIUI these are part of BBC Vision (and thus branded as BBC Productions) rather than BBC Nations and Regions.
The introduction of the new animated sequence is probably the best thing that could have happened. It's all too easy to obtain alternate static templates of logos; hopefully there aren't too many animated logo files out there to choose from! We should get a consistent looking logo on end captions now at least.
There are so many examples on BBC One and BBC Two each day, where the BBC logo has been reproduced incorrectly on end captions. The branding police clearly don't enforce the guidelines.
As for the 'English Regions' text not being in Gill Sans and being aligned to the baseline of the boxes rather than the 'BBC' lettering, this is nothing new either. Over the years, BBC Manchester productions have aligned 'Manchester' with the baseline of the boxes on many occasions. This has happened time after time after time. Where did this template come from and why was it allowed to happen over such a long period? Even BBC Wales were guilty of this on episodes of 'Doctor Who' from c. 2005.
I note on that guidelines page that it specifies sizes of logos. Again, another aspect of the guidelines that hasn't really ever been enforced. The most blatant example of rule-breaking in that respect has got to be that absolutely massive 'BBC Scotland' logo that has materialised on end captions in recent years.
For the Nations, the guidelines page shows a decent space between the BBC logo and regional identifier. In practice, many end captions don't reflect the templates shown on that page either. BBC Northern Ireland for example, regularly have the regional title right up against the BBC logo.
As I say, the new 'BBC Productions' animated logo will hopefully rid us of the various inconsistencies in end captions where programmes are produced in England. Hopefully, a similar animated logo will be rolled out for the Nations.
noggin posted:
AIUI one of the only shows that doesn't have a BBC Productions end cap is The One Show - as it has contributions from BBC Productions, BBC Productions Bristol, BBC Productions Manchester, BBC Wales and quite a few independent production companies.
Yes, I did wonder about that. Why not use the animated BBC logo on its own? Can't understand why an animated logo wasn't given to NI, Scotland and Wales.
Mind you, if the BBC can't even get the logo right on the front page of their website (with one 'B' wider than the other)...
IS
Not really, most documentary or factual strands (Panorama, Watchdog, Inside Out etc) have editors, either series or programme editor. They tend to oversee the whole series or strand rather than an individual episode
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Also somewhat unusual having an "Editor" (editorial as apposed to VT) for a non-live programme.
Not really, most documentary or factual strands (Panorama, Watchdog, Inside Out etc) have editors, either series or programme editor. They tend to oversee the whole series or strand rather than an individual episode
NG
Not really - some shows have Editors some have Executive Producers, some have both.
The Editor role is usually on more journalistically driven shows - which are often live, but not always. The role of Editor is more "Editorial" I guess!
However I suspect they used Editor on Helicopter Heroes because the person in question has that as their main job title? There is always the confusion as to do you credit someone with their job title or their role on the production - as they aren't always the same. (An Editor may Executive Produce, a Senior Producer may Direct etc.)
noggin
Founding member
Steve in Pudsey posted:
Also somewhat unusual having an "Editor" (editorial as apposed to VT) for a non-live programme.
Not really - some shows have Editors some have Executive Producers, some have both.
The Editor role is usually on more journalistically driven shows - which are often live, but not always. The role of Editor is more "Editorial" I guess!
However I suspect they used Editor on Helicopter Heroes because the person in question has that as their main job title? There is always the confusion as to do you credit someone with their job title or their role on the production - as they aren't always the same. (An Editor may Executive Produce, a Senior Producer may Direct etc.)
NG
The introduction of the new animated sequence is probably the best thing that could have happened. It's all too easy to obtain alternate static templates of logos; hopefully there aren't too many animated logo files out there to choose from! We should get a consistent looking logo on end captions now at least.
I think quite often no template is used, and instead the graphic is created from scratch on an Aston or in the FCP or Avid, rather than a complete graphic being imported.
There are so many examples on BBC One and BBC Two each day, where the BBC logo has been reproduced incorrectly on end captions. The branding police clearly don't enforce the guidelines.
The branding police are nowhere near as diligent or ferocious as they used to be. Originally presentation had a branding police role - but since they are now Red Bee they don't have that role. Instead BBC Marketing, Communication and Audiences have that role I believe (and they have been as guilty of breaking the original guidelines as many!)
I've not heard of any recent productions being told off for breaking the rules...
As for the 'English Regions' text not being in Gill Sans and being aligned to the baseline of the boxes rather than the 'BBC' lettering, this is nothing new either. Over the years, BBC Manchester productions have aligned 'Manchester' with the baseline of the boxes on many occasions. This has happened time after time after time. Where did this template come from and why was it allowed to happen over such a long period? Even BBC Wales were guilty of this on episodes of 'Doctor Who' from c. 2005.
Same reason I suspect - graphics being created locally rather than the full template bit map used.
I note on that guidelines page that it specifies sizes of logos. Again, another aspect of the guidelines that hasn't really ever been enforced. The most blatant example of rule-breaking in that respect has got to be that absolutely massive 'BBC Scotland' logo that has materialised on end captions in recent years.
See above...
For the Nations, the guidelines page shows a decent space between the BBC logo and regional identifier. In practice, many end captions don't reflect the templates shown on that page either. BBC Northern Ireland for example, regularly have the regional title right up against the BBC logo.
Again see above.
None of this is helped by graphics increasingly being done by Picture Editors rather than designers or operators with an eye for type.
As I say, the new 'BBC Productions' animated logo will hopefully rid us of the various inconsistencies in end captions where programmes are produced in England. Hopefully, a similar animated logo will be rolled out for the Nations.
Though the new animation is often VERY poorly implemented. It shows how many people don't know how to key properly...
Yes, I did wonder about that. Why not use the animated BBC logo on its own? Can't understand why an animated logo wasn't given to NI, Scotland and Wales.
I think the animated BBC logo is a part of the BBC Productions brand rather than any wider BBC brand.
It does, itself, break the Lambie Nairn original BBC logo guidelines (where the logo shouldn't be animated - and always treated as a single entity not three units...)
Personally I can't stand it - but that is probably because the keying is so often done poorly. (There are two standard ways of delivering a key, and you have to know which one is being used - additive or multiplicative - and few people ever do... Get it wrong and you end up with stuff not fading on correctly and/or black edges around graphics)
Mind you, if the BBC can't even get the logo right on the front page of their website (with one 'B' wider than the other)...
!!!
noggin
Founding member
The TV Room posted:
The introduction of the new animated sequence is probably the best thing that could have happened. It's all too easy to obtain alternate static templates of logos; hopefully there aren't too many animated logo files out there to choose from! We should get a consistent looking logo on end captions now at least.
I think quite often no template is used, and instead the graphic is created from scratch on an Aston or in the FCP or Avid, rather than a complete graphic being imported.
Quote:
There are so many examples on BBC One and BBC Two each day, where the BBC logo has been reproduced incorrectly on end captions. The branding police clearly don't enforce the guidelines.
The branding police are nowhere near as diligent or ferocious as they used to be. Originally presentation had a branding police role - but since they are now Red Bee they don't have that role. Instead BBC Marketing, Communication and Audiences have that role I believe (and they have been as guilty of breaking the original guidelines as many!)
I've not heard of any recent productions being told off for breaking the rules...
Quote:
As for the 'English Regions' text not being in Gill Sans and being aligned to the baseline of the boxes rather than the 'BBC' lettering, this is nothing new either. Over the years, BBC Manchester productions have aligned 'Manchester' with the baseline of the boxes on many occasions. This has happened time after time after time. Where did this template come from and why was it allowed to happen over such a long period? Even BBC Wales were guilty of this on episodes of 'Doctor Who' from c. 2005.
Same reason I suspect - graphics being created locally rather than the full template bit map used.
Quote:
I note on that guidelines page that it specifies sizes of logos. Again, another aspect of the guidelines that hasn't really ever been enforced. The most blatant example of rule-breaking in that respect has got to be that absolutely massive 'BBC Scotland' logo that has materialised on end captions in recent years.
See above...
Quote:
For the Nations, the guidelines page shows a decent space between the BBC logo and regional identifier. In practice, many end captions don't reflect the templates shown on that page either. BBC Northern Ireland for example, regularly have the regional title right up against the BBC logo.
Again see above.
None of this is helped by graphics increasingly being done by Picture Editors rather than designers or operators with an eye for type.
Quote:
As I say, the new 'BBC Productions' animated logo will hopefully rid us of the various inconsistencies in end captions where programmes are produced in England. Hopefully, a similar animated logo will be rolled out for the Nations.
Though the new animation is often VERY poorly implemented. It shows how many people don't know how to key properly...
Quote:
noggin posted:
AIUI one of the only shows that doesn't have a BBC Productions end cap is The One Show - as it has contributions from BBC Productions, BBC Productions Bristol, BBC Productions Manchester, BBC Wales and quite a few independent production companies.
Yes, I did wonder about that. Why not use the animated BBC logo on its own? Can't understand why an animated logo wasn't given to NI, Scotland and Wales.
I think the animated BBC logo is a part of the BBC Productions brand rather than any wider BBC brand.
It does, itself, break the Lambie Nairn original BBC logo guidelines (where the logo shouldn't be animated - and always treated as a single entity not three units...)
Personally I can't stand it - but that is probably because the keying is so often done poorly. (There are two standard ways of delivering a key, and you have to know which one is being used - additive or multiplicative - and few people ever do... Get it wrong and you end up with stuff not fading on correctly and/or black edges around graphics)
Quote:
Mind you, if the BBC can't even get the logo right on the front page of their website (with one 'B' wider than the other)...
!!!
IS
I think quite often no template is used, and instead the graphic is created from scratch on an Aston or in the FCP or Avid, rather than a complete graphic being imported.
Yes, it happens a lot in the regions especially when a programme is made by an indie for a region. The first concern quite rightly is finishing the edit in time, not ensuring the end credit is correct!
noggin posted:
I think quite often no template is used, and instead the graphic is created from scratch on an Aston or in the FCP or Avid, rather than a complete graphic being imported.
Yes, it happens a lot in the regions especially when a programme is made by an indie for a region. The first concern quite rightly is finishing the edit in time, not ensuring the end credit is correct!
DE
As I say, the new 'BBC Productions' animated logo will hopefully rid us of the various inconsistencies in end captions where programmes are produced in England.
You think? I watched Big Cat Live earlier this evening, and the "BBC Bristol Productions" animated logo was in the wrong aspect ratio (too tall and thin).
The TV Room posted:
As I say, the new 'BBC Productions' animated logo will hopefully rid us of the various inconsistencies in end captions where programmes are produced in England.
You think? I watched Big Cat Live earlier this evening, and the "BBC Bristol Productions" animated logo was in the wrong aspect ratio (too tall and thin).
TV
Yes, I noticed that too. Just caught a glimpse of it, but it appeared to break a number of the new rules. The 'Bristol' text size seemed larger than it ought to be. The rule about leaving a specified amount of space above and below the 'BBC Productions' logo was also flouted.
I hadn't looked at the new rules until Noggin had pointed them out yesterday. Since then, I've noticed a number of end captions that haven't been adhering to the rules.
Yet again, the rules are there, and not enforced. What's the point???
denton posted:
You think? I watched Big Cat Live earlier this evening, and the "BBC Bristol Productions" animated logo was in the wrong aspect ratio (too tall and thin).
Yes, I noticed that too. Just caught a glimpse of it, but it appeared to break a number of the new rules. The 'Bristol' text size seemed larger than it ought to be. The rule about leaving a specified amount of space above and below the 'BBC Productions' logo was also flouted.
I hadn't looked at the new rules until Noggin had pointed them out yesterday. Since then, I've noticed a number of end captions that haven't been adhering to the rules.
Yet again, the rules are there, and not enforced. What's the point???