There was a story that YTV had set it up off their own bat without reference to the IBA, but that can't be true, can it?
The IBA would have to have been involved, they would have had to have added the appropriate PIE kit at Crosspool. I know the person who originally flagged it, he spoke to a very embarrassed engineer at Crawley Court
It was a licence requirement for the new 'Jan 1 1993' period , (by then the ITC) that all ITV companies should be stereo equipped, GMTV was the only company to struggle with that ISTR ?
Why would they have struggled? All their transmission/playout was the same as Carlton and LWT, and I wouldn't have thought they'd not have upgraded their studio facilities in preparation for going on air
It was a licence requirement for the new 'Jan 1 1993' period , (by then the ITC) that all ITV companies should be stereo equipped, GMTV was the only company to struggle with that ISTR ?
Why would they have struggled? All their transmission/playout was the same as Carlton and LWT, and I wouldn't have thought they'd not have upgraded their studio facilities in preparation for going on air
I can't remember the details, it wasn't the playout side, I think it was the studio audio desk/system?
It was a licence requirement for the new 'Jan 1 1993' period , (by then the ITC) that all ITV companies should be stereo equipped, GMTV was the only company to struggle with that ISTR ?
Why would they have struggled? All their transmission/playout was the same as Carlton and LWT, and I wouldn't have thought they'd not have upgraded their studio facilities in preparation for going on air
Didn't GMTV use existing TLS studio facilities? I don't think they built from scratch - so it could have been they inherited a mono sound installation in the studio they were using ?
It was a licence requirement for the new 'Jan 1 1993' period , (by then the ITC) that all ITV companies should be stereo equipped, GMTV was the only company to struggle with that ISTR ?
Why would they have struggled? All their transmission/playout was the same as Carlton and LWT, and I wouldn't have thought they'd not have upgraded their studio facilities in preparation for going on air
Didn't GMTV use existing TLS studio facilities? I don't think they built from scratch - so it could have been they inherited a mono sound installation in the studio they were using ?
The studio production floor (St5) was of course already in existence, all the other facilities and production suites were specifically built for GMTV as they simply did not exist and had to be ready for GMTV's rehearsals in Oct 1992. I think the first audio desk was an Amek, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't stereo capable. Long time ago.
Last edited by bluecortina on 5 September 2017 1:53pm - 2 times in total
We had a retro-fitted early NICAM decoder installed in our VHS HiFi VCR (you used the Simulcast setting to record NICAM audio) and were watching and listening to Crystal Palace NICAM broadcasts from c.86 or 87.
Whilst technically they were 'test' broadcasts, the reality was that stereo production became the norm very quickly, particularly for live shows, and for recoded shows that went through a 'dub'. Shows that didn't go through a dub and were edited quickly on 1" or Beta SP were less likely to be stereo - as there are limited audio tracks on that format (and you used to have to use external digital lay-off devices ISTR)
ISTR that Yellowthread Street (set in Hong Kong with a decent budget) was the first ITV stereo drama.
I seem to recall the lay off device would have been a 'Bel box'? - pretty standard bit of kit throughout the industry during that period.
Just some memories. Going from mono to stereo operation was quite a big deal for the ITV companies. Where I worked we moved over from analogue audio distribution to dual channel sound in syncs (DCSIS) for inter company programme distribution via postie. The DCSIS signal was somewhat prone to not working if it was in way distorted. It was imperative to ensure the signals incoming to 'your' building were properly equalised at the very front end (as they 'hit the building' in the PO bays) or the DCSIS decoders would simply object and you'd either get nothing or highly distorted and glitchy audio.
Internally of course everything had to change over from mono to stereo, perhaps one of the most overlooked areas is the question of stereo distribution and switching around the various sources and destinations around the TV complex. Internally, signals were still analogue (SDI was maybe a tiny dream somewhere) but at our company our 'old' analogue Probel audio matrix in CAR had to be replaced and it was with a Probel TDM matrix (Time Division Multiplex) - in essence the analogue audio feeds were presented to the matrix input ports, which then converted them to digital, which then switched that digital signal to the required output port, which then decoded it back to analogue audio to send to the correct destination. This new matrix also replaced the old analogue VTR matrix which was originally manufactured by Utah Scientific. Interesting times as ever.
We had a retro-fitted early NICAM decoder installed in our VHS HiFi VCR (you used the Simulcast setting to record NICAM audio) and were watching and listening to Crystal Palace NICAM broadcasts from c.86 or 87.
Whilst technically they were 'test' broadcasts, the reality was that stereo production became the norm very quickly, particularly for live shows, and for recoded shows that went through a 'dub'. Shows that didn't go through a dub and were edited quickly on 1" or Beta SP were less likely to be stereo - as there are limited audio tracks on that format (and you used to have to use external digital lay-off devices ISTR)
ISTR that Yellowthread Street (set in Hong Kong with a decent budget) was the first ITV stereo drama.
I seem to recall the lay off device would have been a 'Bel box'? - pretty standard bit of kit throughout the industry during that period.
Yep - Bel boxes were standard in Beta SP suites working stereo. ISTR that some areas worked M/S rather than A/B too.
Why would they have struggled? All their transmission/playout was the same as Carlton and LWT, and I wouldn't have thought they'd not have upgraded their studio facilities in preparation for going on air
Didn't GMTV use existing TLS studio facilities? I don't think they built from scratch - so it could have been they inherited a mono sound installation in the studio they were using ?
The studio production floor (St5) was of course already in existence, all the other facilities and production suites were specifically built for GMTV as they simply did not exist and had to be ready for GMTV's rehearsals in Oct 1992. I think the first audio desk was an Amek, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't stereo capable. Long time ago.
Ah - you know far more than I do on the subject. I'd be amazed if it had been a mono install if it was a new-build.
Just some memories. Going from mono to stereo operation was quite a big deal for the ITV companies. Where I worked we moved over from analogue audio distribution to dual channel sound in syncs (DCSIS) for inter company programme distribution via postie. The DCSIS signal was somewhat prone to not working if it was in way distorted. It was imperative to ensure the signals incoming to 'your' building were properly equalised at the very front end (as they 'hit the building' in the PO bays) or the DCSIS decoders would simply object and you'd either get nothing or highly distorted and glitchy audio.
Internally of course everything had to change over from mono to stereo, perhaps one of the most overlooked areas is the question of stereo distribution and switching around the various sources and destinations around the TV complex. Internally, signals were still analogue (SDI was maybe a tiny dream somewhere) but at our company our 'old' analogue Probel audio matrix in CAR had to be replaced and it was with a Probel TDM matrix (Time Division Multiplex) - in essence the analogue audio feeds were presented to the matrix input ports, which then converted them to digital, which then switched that digital signal to the required output port, which then decoded it back to analogue audio to send to the correct destination. This new matrix also replaced the old analogue VTR matrix which was originally manufactured by Utah Scientific. Interesting times as ever.
Were there multiple flavours of DSIS? ISTR that there were various flavours of one type of SIS or the other.
From memory the BBC used Dual Sound-In-Syncs (aka DSIS) on the output of their studio centres to feed the transmitters - and the data format used for DSIS was identical to NICAM, so removed the need for NICAM digital encoders at every transmitter (instead just needing some shuffling and modulators)?
Just some memories. Going from mono to stereo operation was quite a big deal for the ITV companies. Where I worked we moved over from analogue audio distribution to dual channel sound in syncs (DCSIS) for inter company programme distribution via postie. The DCSIS signal was somewhat prone to not working if it was in way distorted. It was imperative to ensure the signals incoming to 'your' building were properly equalised at the very front end (as they 'hit the building' in the PO bays) or the DCSIS decoders would simply object and you'd either get nothing or highly distorted and glitchy audio.
Internally of course everything had to change over from mono to stereo, perhaps one of the most overlooked areas is the question of stereo distribution and switching around the various sources and destinations around the TV complex. Internally, signals were still analogue (SDI was maybe a tiny dream somewhere) but at our company our 'old' analogue Probel audio matrix in CAR had to be replaced and it was with a Probel TDM matrix (Time Division Multiplex) - in essence the analogue audio feeds were presented to the matrix input ports, which then converted them to digital, which then switched that digital signal to the required output port, which then decoded it back to analogue audio to send to the correct destination. This new matrix also replaced the old analogue VTR matrix which was originally manufactured by Utah Scientific. Interesting times as ever.
Were there multiple flavours of DSIS? ISTR that there were various flavours of one type of SIS or the other.
From memory the BBC used Dual Sound-In-Syncs (aka DSIS) on the output of their studio centres to feed the transmitters - and the data format used for DSIS was identical to NICAM, so removed the need for NICAM digital encoders at every transmitter (instead just needing some shuffling and modulators)?
I can only tell you that the BBC used a different flavour of DCSIS than the IBA. If we were producing a live programme for the BBC they had to send over a 'BBC' DCSIS encoder as our 'IBA' encoders encoded to a different format and were not compatible. In practice the IBA encoders were actually manufactured by RE Electronics.
I had it in my mind that the IBA encoders were more directly compatible with NICAM? But it was all a long time ago and I happily defer to you on that one. I think Markymark may have more detail if he sees this thread.
Last edited by bluecortina on 5 September 2017 9:11pm
Didn't GMTV use existing TLS studio facilities? I don't think they built from scratch - so it could have been they inherited a mono sound installation in the studio they were using ?
The studio production floor (St5) was of course already in existence, all the other facilities and production suites were specifically built for GMTV as they simply did not exist and had to be ready for GMTV's rehearsals in Oct 1992. I think the first audio desk was an Amek, I'd be very surprised if it wasn't stereo capable. Long time ago.
Ah - you know far more than I do on the subject. I'd be amazed if it had been a mono install if it was a new-build.
It was quite an install and a very tight timescale with not much money. The project engineer who undertook it was a very, very experienced engineer who everyone respected and liked immensely. It was a mixture of old and new kit. From memory the cameras and Betacart were ex-LWT, new studio vision mixer (GVG200) and all new graphics kit (Quantel). I cant imagine there was a spare sound desk knocking round and so it must have been new. The computer flooring in the control rooms was the fly in the ointment as there is/was no headroom, it's only about 4" deep. Next to the production gallery was the old 'Echo plate' room for the main studios. Given the era that was all out of date and had been removed to make way for the GMTV news computer systems.