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OFCOM to renew all franchises

WALES to gain a new sperate franchises (February 2014)

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WH
Whataday Founding member
Isn't there already a precedent for this though? I'm sure that, way back in the mists of time, the Belmont transmitter was originally part of Anglia Television's patch before later being reassigned to Yorkshire Television.


Oh I'm sure they'd consider that precedent, that took place FORTY YEARS AGO(!) That's not in the least bit relevant and not only is ITV completely different, but so is the regulator and the whole industry.
ST
steveboswell

Oh I'm sure they'd consider that precedent, that took place FORTY YEARS AGO(!) That's not in the least bit relevant and not only is ITV completely different, but so is the regulator and the whole industry.


Well now, be fair. It is a precedent, regardless of how long ago it happened, and it's not like these things change with great frequency. In percentage terms, ITV losing the Scottish borders will probably be less of a change than when Anglia lost Belmont.
Rijowhi and Three Lefts Do gave kudos
MA
Markymark
I think they maybe meant southwards, i.e. put Border Scotland into Scotland Central.


Wouldn't that move a chunk of advertising revenue from ITV and give it to STV? That could be quite a tricky thing to do...


Isn't there already a precedent for this though? I'm sure that, way back in the mists of time, the Belmont transmitter was originally part of Anglia Television's patch before later being reassigned to Yorkshire Television.


Yes, although that was part of the 1974 franchise renewal scheme, where Anglia's region was made smaller,
in order to enlarge YTV's.

No different to Jan 1982 when the Bluebell Hill and Tunbridge Wells transmitters were taken away from Thames/LWT and given to TVS, and the South Cumbria relays being taken from Granada and given to Border.

Although the whole business of the Belmont/Emley/Bilsdale overlaps did spark this initiative off:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trident_Television
RI
Rijowhi
I think they maybe meant southwards, i.e. put Border Scotland into Scotland Central.


Wouldn't that move a chunk of advertising revenue from ITV and give it to STV? That could be quite a tricky thing to do...


I'm still left wondering if moving Border Scotland to STV would have been that tricky to do. Surely ITV would have only had to produce 1 Regional News programme for the Tyne Tees and Border England areas? If ITV were still left short changed then maybe the Contract Rights Renewal agreement could have been looked at?

As for Border Scotland, surely being able to see Scottish non-News programming (such as Scottish debates) would be an advantage? Surely being part of Scottish News programming with some opt-outs would also help Border Scotland viewers feel like they actually matter in Scotland?

I really feel Ofcom dropped the ball here.
BR
Brekkie
If ITV owned the Scottish Central region I'm sure it would be realigned, but as they don't and OFCOM isn't in the business of putting these franchises out to tender it was never going to happen.
EX
excel99
As for Border Scotland, surely being able to see Scottish non-News programming (such as Scottish debates) would be an advantage? Surely being part of Scottish News programming with some opt-outs would also help Border Scotland viewers feel like they actually matter in Scotland?

I really feel Ofcom dropped the ball here.

Don't people in Border Scotland largely want to remain part of the Border region? I thought there was a lot of 'affinity' to the Border region from the people who live within it?
WH
Whataday Founding member

Oh I'm sure they'd consider that precedent, that took place FORTY YEARS AGO(!) That's not in the least bit relevant and not only is ITV completely different, but so is the regulator and the whole industry.


Well now, be fair. It is a precedent, regardless of how long ago it happened, and it's not like these things change with great frequency. In percentage terms, ITV losing the Scottish borders will probably be less of a change than when Anglia lost Belmont.


It's not really a precedent as that was done under a different authority, with different laws and regulations and in very different circumstances.
BA
bilky asko

Oh I'm sure they'd consider that precedent, that took place FORTY YEARS AGO(!) That's not in the least bit relevant and not only is ITV completely different, but so is the regulator and the whole industry.


Well now, be fair. It is a precedent, regardless of how long ago it happened, and it's not like these things change with great frequency. In percentage terms, ITV losing the Scottish borders will probably be less of a change than when Anglia lost Belmont.


It's not really a precedent as that was done under a different authority, with different laws and regulations and in very different circumstances.


If we're going full-on legalese, it could be said it's a persuasive precedent rather than a binding one.
WH
Whataday Founding member

Oh I'm sure they'd consider that precedent, that took place FORTY YEARS AGO(!) That's not in the least bit relevant and not only is ITV completely different, but so is the regulator and the whole industry.


Well now, be fair. It is a precedent, regardless of how long ago it happened, and it's not like these things change with great frequency. In percentage terms, ITV losing the Scottish borders will probably be less of a change than when Anglia lost Belmont.


It's not really a precedent as that was done under a different authority, with different laws and regulations and in very different circumstances.


If we're going full-on legalese, it could be said it's a persuasive precedent rather than a binding one.


In the context given it was said that it's possible the Scottish Borders could be given to STV because of something similar that happened 40 years ago under a totally different authority in totally different circumstances.

The nearest we have to a precedent is the decision to take the West from the 'HTV' licence and merge it with the 'Westcountry' licence.
BA
bilky asko

Oh I'm sure they'd consider that precedent, that took place FORTY YEARS AGO(!) That's not in the least bit relevant and not only is ITV completely different, but so is the regulator and the whole industry.


Well now, be fair. It is a precedent, regardless of how long ago it happened, and it's not like these things change with great frequency. In percentage terms, ITV losing the Scottish borders will probably be less of a change than when Anglia lost Belmont.


It's not really a precedent as that was done under a different authority, with different laws and regulations and in very different circumstances.


If we're going full-on legalese, it could be said it's a persuasive precedent rather than a binding one.


In the context given it was said that it's possible the Scottish Borders could be given to STV because of something similar that happened 40 years ago under a totally different authority in totally different circumstances.

There are cases in law where cases from other countries have been used to make decisions in this country; those persuasive precedents have shaped our law.


In this case, time isn't necessarily a limiting factor, and the "totally different regulator" was still a regulator of television, so that should make no difference. Therefore, if the situation is similar enough, it could be a persuasive precedent (i.e. something that may be worth following, but by no means something that has to be followed).
CW
cwathen Founding member
Personally, I think the decision to create a separate license for Wales is a good thing. Not only does it recognise Wales' standing within the UK as a separate nation, but it also brings the Channel 3 service into line with the BBC's approach and is effectively what ITV has been doing anyway. If anything, I'm surprised the issue wasn't addressed earlier, around the time of devolution.

A separate Welsh licence may well make sense, but the issue I have is that neither ITV nor OFCOM see any need to have a separate South West licence. This is particularly questionable when a few years before the merger the old HTV West region was already expanded to take over part of what used to be Central South, with the closure of Westcountry there is now only 1 service broadcasting to the whole lot - it's a huge area with huge diversity encompassing 3 major cities and several major towns, and that's before you even get started on cultural differences - 1 news service is just not adequate.


On the other side of the fence, even in the face of cost saving initiatives like DQF which have delivered large cutbacks the BBC haven't at any point implied they have even considered merging their West and South West regions, so I don't see why ITV shouldn't be required to maintain them if they are allegedly supposed to still be a PSB.
Last edited by cwathen on 16 February 2014 3:50pm
WP
WillPS
Personally, I think the decision to create a separate license for Wales is a good thing. Not only does it recognise Wales' standing within the UK as a separate nation, but it also brings the Channel 3 service into line with the BBC's approach and is effectively what ITV has been doing anyway. If anything, I'm surprised the issue wasn't addressed earlier, around the time of devolution.

A separate Welsh licence may well make sense, but the issue I have is that neither ITV nor OFCOM see any need to have a separate South West licence. This is particularly questionable when a few years before the merger the old HTV West region was already expanded to take over part of what used to be Central South, with the closure of Westcountry there is now only 1 service broadcasting to the whole lot - it's a huge area with huge diversity encompassing 3 major cities and several major towns , and that's before you even get started on cultural differences - 1 news service is just not adequate.

Well, the East Midlands has 3 major cities (or 2 + Derby depending on your perspective) + several major towns (Chesterfield, Mansfield, Kettering etc.) and nobody's ever suggested splitting that down any further than it is already.

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